Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction (Douglas to Lake St)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
ECtransplant
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby ECtransplant » April 18th, 2014, 12:29 pm

Except the buses were part of that back up. We're not taking about removing lanes; we're talking about giving transit priority in certain lanes

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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby PhilmerPhil » April 18th, 2014, 1:13 pm

Well, I mentioned removing lanes. Things have a way of working themselves out. It may take a year or two to normalize congestion back down to normal levels, so a construction project may not be the best way to judge a road diet. Also, when this construction occurred, I doubt bike facilities that anyone from my mom to an 8 year old were put in to provide another option for people. Temporary road projects probably don't get people to switch modes either. With a permanent change, many people may decide that they'd rather hop on a bike or catch up on their emails/Facebook on a bus than be stuck sitting in their car. I'm not saying everyone will quit driving, but other modes may be attractive enough that we'd see a significant switch.

As for the comments that people would just switch to Lyndale, this may be true, but who says we can't bring people friendly improvements there as well?

David Greene
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » April 18th, 2014, 1:47 pm

Isn't it fun when people are told what they should have in their own neighborhood by other people who don't live there?

ECtransplant
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby ECtransplant » April 18th, 2014, 3:36 pm

Resorting to, "I live there I know better" isn't argument. But since that's criteria we're using, I live half a block off Hennepin

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby FISHMANPET » April 18th, 2014, 3:39 pm

If you have to live there to know how something works, then how can anybody speak on the Kennilworth corridor, since nobody lives there?

David Greene
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » April 18th, 2014, 3:57 pm

I'm not saying that people who don't live there shouldn't put forward their ideas. But they shouldn't just dismiss things that residents say about their experiences. For some reason people seem to think we can just eliminate two lanes of traffic on Hennepin. I am saying, as someone who lives in the area and drives and walks on Hennepin practically every single day, that that is not going to work. Biking isn't practical for many of the people driving. Bus improvements would help but we do need to handle a good traffic load here.

mattaudio
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby mattaudio » April 18th, 2014, 8:13 pm

We have limited right of way. Are we going to sacrifice all modes of transportation for the sake of giving priority to space-inefficient automobile users? Or will we make more efficient uses of this scarce public resource?

Tcmetro
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby Tcmetro » April 18th, 2014, 10:20 pm

Well for the record, I believe that most everyone hear is referring to converting a parking lane into a peak hour bus lane, not taking one of the traffic lanes for a bus lane.

anders
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby anders » April 20th, 2014, 2:20 am

Hennepin serves the region both as a transportation corridor and as the primary artery of a major commercial district. There's plenty of reason for lots of non-residents to give a hoot.

I also think it's reasonable to acknowledge that you can't just ignore ~30,000 vehicles worth of daily traffic. Many of these trips are probably commuters from near-SW suburbs. Getting them on to 394 (if coming from downtown) or on to transit should be a goal. Easier said than done, of course.

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Hennepin Avenue

Postby Anondson » April 20th, 2014, 6:24 am

Before Hwy 12 become 394, and TH 100 and 36th in SLP had its stop light removed, Hennepin and Lake had epic congestion in the 1980s. Anything today is milder in my comparison.

David Greene
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » April 20th, 2014, 9:09 pm

Hennepin serves the region both as a transportation corridor and as the primary artery of a major commercial district. There's plenty of reason for lots of non-residents to give a hoot.

I also think it's reasonable to acknowledge that you can't just ignore ~30,000 vehicles worth of daily traffic. Many of these trips are probably commuters from near-SW suburbs. Getting them on to 394 (if coming from downtown) or on to transit should be a goal. Easier said than done, of course.
I never said non-residents shouldn't comment and that they don't have a stake. What I said was that when residents tell you your idea won't work, it's rude to ignore their input and continue to tell them what their neighborhood should look like. At least acknowldge their critiques and try to address them rather than simply saying, "no, you're wrong."

I am the first one to promote road diets, returns to two-way operation and so on to make traffic calmer. I would fight for two-way restoration on 26th, 28th Lagoon and Lake. But Hennepin won't work with two lanes of traffic. It just won't.

Peak-only bus lanes where the parking currently is *might* work. I am certainly willing to explore that idea. But eliminating two lanes of traffic entirely is a DOA idea.

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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » April 20th, 2014, 9:12 pm

Many of these trips are probably commuters from near-SW suburbs. Getting them on to 394 (if coming from downtown) or on to transit should be a goal. Easier said than done, of course.
It would be interesting to see a study of this. The only non-Minneapolis people I can imagine taking advantage of Hennepin for their commute is some people in far-eastern St. Louis Park and *maybe* some people in far northern Richfield. I have a suspicion the vast majority of traffic is within Minneapolis, at least during peak.

mattaudio
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby mattaudio » April 20th, 2014, 9:21 pm

But Hennepin won't work with two lanes of traffic. It just won't.
For people driving cars. For people walking, biking, or riding transit it would work better.

David Greene
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » April 20th, 2014, 9:36 pm

But Hennepin won't work with two lanes of traffic. It just won't.
For people driving cars. For people walking, biking, or riding transit it would work better.
No, it wouldn't. Hennepin is actually pretty good for pedestrians. Any improvement would be marginal and would result more from improving the street frontage of buildings than anything else. It is already pretty good for buses and parking-lane bus lanes during peak could improve that. Maybe it would improve for biking (I am doubtful) but really, just take Bryant of Humboldt or any of the many streets that are much better for biking.

I'd really rather not have a traffic jam of idling cars polluting my home, thank you very much.

Have we forgotten how many people on this very board said, "I can't wait until they open that turn lane by the library?" One eighth-of-a-block right-turn lane.
Last edited by David Greene on April 20th, 2014, 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby FISHMANPET » April 20th, 2014, 9:42 pm

Do you mean to say you wouldn't want them in your... back yard??? ;)

Of course I kid.

mattaudio
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby mattaudio » April 20th, 2014, 9:44 pm

What good is a transit improvement if it costs less than $1.5 billion?

David Greene
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » April 20th, 2014, 9:45 pm

Do you mean to say you wouldn't want them in your... back yard??? ;)

Of course I kid.
Christ, they're still cleaning up the soil from the last ridiculous transportation planning nightmare in the area!

mattaudio
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby mattaudio » April 20th, 2014, 9:46 pm

Christ, they're still cleaning up the soil from the last ridiculous transportation planning nightmare in the area!
PRT? Bob's Transit Revolution? Gondolas?

Edit: I jest. Don't take me too seriously this eve, David. :D

mattaudio
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby mattaudio » April 21st, 2014, 9:25 am

So we cannot build our way out of congestion, but David's concern is valid: Congestion on urban streets causes pollution that affects neighbors. Any ideas out there to solve it? I guess removing cars altogether would solve it (and I have that idea) but it's not politically feasible to remove through-traffic from Hennepin. Congestion pricing on a city street would be much tougher to implement than on freeways. What other options are there?

David Greene
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Re: Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » April 21st, 2014, 9:26 am

Christ, they're still cleaning up the soil from the last ridiculous transportation planning nightmare in the area!
PRT? Bob's Transit Revolution? Gondolas?

Edit: I jest. Don't take me too seriously this eve, David. :D
Fair enough. :)

I'm referring to the one-way pairing of Emerson and Dupont through the Wedge. I don't know when it was changed back to two-way but I've had neighbors tell me they've had to clean up soil contamination.


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