Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

[froggie]

Got an E-mail from the city about an Open House coming up next week on the 35W/Lake project. Copy/paste from the city's E-mail below:

I-35W Transit/Access Project Open House - June 19
You are invited to attend the next public open house for the I-35W transit/access project to provide comments on current design concepts and learn about next steps in the design process.
Topics that will be covered are:
Freeway and bridges between 42nd Street and I-94
Orange Line BRT transit station at Lake Street
“Green Crescent” bicycle/pedestrian connection between Midtown Greenway and 31st Street
24th Street pedestrian/bicycle bridge
Public art framework
Open House Details:
Thursday, June 19, 2014
5:30-7:30 p.m.
Whittier Community Center
425 26th Street West

[Tcmetro]

That's interesting. Perhaps the scope is being expanded to include 35W all the way to the north end of the Crosstown Commons project?

[mattaudio]

Wasn't that originally within scope? And moving to a diamond interchange at 38th St? Until they got low on cash? Wonder if the interchange would be moving. And I'd still like to see the split diamond move from 31st-Lake to Lake-28th.

[David Greene]

Wasn't that originally within scope? And moving to a diamond interchange at 38th St? Until they got low on cash? Wonder if the interchange would be moving. And I'd still like to see the split diamond move from 31st-Lake to Lake-28th.

SOMETHING needs to be done about the god-awful weaving between the entrance from 35th and the exit to 31st!

[Tcmetro]

The original scope was as far south as 32nd, as the whole 35th-36th-38th problem is probably going to be a huge NIMBY-fest. Also the project is basically cobbled together (financially) of Chapter 152 and transit capital funds. I'm wondering where the money will come from, or if the southern extension one of those plan it now wish list type deals.

[twincitizen]

Note: I merged the two topics, so mostly ignore what I typed below.
If you're looking for a general 35W thread to talk about things that aren't related to the Orange Line or Lake St/Transit Access project, it can be found here: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1480
There's another thread to specifically discuss the 94/35W commons area: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=939

The bulk of discussion on this topic has been taking place inside the Orange Line/35W BRT project thread. It looks like what happened here is that someone revived a dormant thread. I think the two issues are tied closely enough together that we can continue to use the Orange Line thread. I know there are other aspects to the 35-Lake project than just the transit station (e.g. new exit ramps, more lanes, etc.) but they are still very closely related. There is a wealth of information in the Orange Line thread, including links, photos, discussion from open houses, ideas, etc.

I'd really like to merge this discussion into the greater Orange Line topic. It would be way too much work to go back and parse out of that thread what really belongs in this one, etc. I will amend the topic title to reflect that it is for the 35-Lake project too. When it comes down to it, the 35-Lake project is just one station on the Orange Line, so it is germaine. This one transit station is so vital to the Orange Line project that everything else in that thread is almost ancillary. There's also a "general" thread to just talk about 35W, and that's probably where things like 35th/36th/38th discussion belongs, since the "gap project" between 42nd and ~32nd still has no timeline and no funding. It is not part of this project.

[twincitizen]

Richfield City Council formally endorsed the Knox Ave option as part of the 35W/494 re-do: http://current.mnsun.com/2014/06/richfi ... ange-line/

Reminder: Orange Line Open House Thursday 5:30-7:30 at Whittier Community Center. I'll dropping by for a short while then heading directly to softball at MLK Park in Kingfield.

[Mdcastle]

My recollection is there wasn't a consensus on moving the ramps to 38th street- the residents on that street didn't want it, but they didn't have a better idea what to do about the weave. I assume Mn/DOT dropped the idea at that point and is not rebuilding the existing layout because they didn't want to literally cement the weave in for another 60 years.

[mattaudio]

I think a southbound exit to Lake St will help deal with the problems at 35th/36th. Almost to the point where we could do a two-way 36th. And I'd still like to see the 31st/Lake split-diamond adjusted to Lake/28th. Then 31st can be a stronger connection between neighborhoods without all the slowness and conflict points of freeway ramps. Same for a two-way 26th. 28th and Lake would distribute freeway-bound traffic very effectively even with fewer lanes overall.

[mplser]

WHy don't they just make the 35th st. exit BEFORE where the 31st st. entrance merges and put a bridge over it?

[twincitizen]

Revised project plan incorporating recent comments: https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites ... ersion.pdf
Supporting information: https://www.metrotransit.org/orange-line-library

Open house reminder:
Thursday, June 19
5:30-7:30 p.m.
Whittier Community Center
425 26th Street West, Minneapolis

[LakeCharles]

Forgive me if it's been talked about before (which I'm sure it has, but a cursory glance through the thread didn't reveal it), but why are there stops at both 76th st and American Blvd?

[EOst]

And not at Franklin or 36th?

[Mdcastle]

76th is where Best Buy headquarters is, assuming they're still around when the Orange LIne is American is where Bloomington plans to build an urbanist utopia astride on each side of two very wide and busy streets.

[mattaudio]

It's still dystopian stroadland, so maybe we agree on the value of that development.

[Southside]

And not at Franklin or 36th?

The original plans have 38th Street as 'future on-line station', which seems to make more sense than 36th (crosstown bus, equal spacing between Lake and 46th).

I have never seen Franklin in any plans. I suspect engineering an on-line station at Franklin on 35W would be very challenging.

[EOst]

And not at Franklin or 36th?

The original plans have 38th Street as 'future on-line station', which seems to make more sense than 36th (crosstown bus, equal spacing between Lake and 46th).

I have never seen Franklin in any plans. I suspect engineering an on-line station at Franklin on 35W would be very challenging.

Yep, typo for 38. Even so, it seems like an important enough corridor to deserve being there from the beginning.

Franklin is one of the densest corridors in the city, aching for some new investment, and one that possesses stubbornly little street life. It seems like the city should be looking for opportunities to improve it wherever they can.

[Southside]

Here's the rundown of MetroTransit's choice of the Knox Ave. underpass with 2 stations rather than 1 on-line station at American Blvd:

http://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/ ... uncils.pdf

Ultimately, if they built the American Blvd. station on-line and 66th Street off-line they would have a very difficult time weaving across the freeway to make both stations.

Choices like making 66th Street off-line make BRT implementations laughable and this corridor should have been LRT in the first place. I have never been able to find a LPA document recommending BRT over LRT. The BRT planning documents I have found place 2030 ridership around the same level as the Central Corridor and note local preference for LRT.

[mattaudio]

The Orange Line is sort of a joke. Not as much of a joke as the red line. But I still cannot comprehend why we think Freeway BRT is the answer as evidenced by the recent Highway Transitway Corridor Study which just wrapped up. Even the title gets it wrong - highways and transitways are just plain incompatible.

Remember when we got that Urban Partnership Agreement from the feds that rehabbed/slightly expanded capacity on 35W, built park & rides, and rebuilt Marq2? What's it going to be - 15 years later by the time the Orange Line actually runs?

[Southside]

Marq2 & 35W are already over capacity. The 535 is already ridiculously unreliable during evening rush due to congestion on both.
It's nice watching traffic get gridlocked at Marquette and 9th while the police office ensures drivers can exit the Young and Quinlan Ramp.

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of streets that could accommodate LRT on the Southside and subway or elevated is a non-starter around here. A LRT implemented like the O'Hare branch of Chicago's Blue Line, while not the most pedestrian friendly approach, could easily help out riders 11,18 and 5 plus serve as a feeder for dozens of express routes.