Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

[intercomnut]

MnDOT will be replacing the 35W bridge over the Minnesota River between 2020 and 2021.

I'm concerned about how this will impact the Orange Line. I remember this year when they were repaving a bridge on 77, the Red Line's frequency was cut from 15 to 30 minutes because there wasn't enough money to maintain normal frequencies with the detour.

So, if there is a long closure for this bridge, will there be a similar frequency cut for the Orange Line? How will that affect ridership?

When this happens, the Orange Line will be probably a year into operation and still building its ridership. It'll also still be working on reversing damage the Red Line has done to the reputation of BRT. If frequency is cut, will people come back when it's finished?

If it stumps the Orange Line this early, I'm concerned if the powers that be will feel it's worth it to add a station at 38th later, or to put an expensive and nice station in when the bridge over 66th gets reconstructed.

Or maybe I'm just overthinking this too early. That's also possible.

[MNdible]

F&C has an article suggesting that this could be moved up to 2017, based on a lower project estimate but pending a transportation funding solution in the 2016 legislative session.

[FISHMANPET]

Is "reconstruct" the same as replace? Or does it mean some form of intense rehab?

[MNdible]

My take from reading the article was that it will be a full replacement. The bridge isn't fracture critical but is maxed out, and is now 55 years old. Part of the bridge/causeway is subject to flooding, so they also want to raise the elevation slightly.

[Silophant]

One big difference is that, unlike the Red Line, the Orange Line actually goes to the destination of a sizable number of the rush-hour trips over this bridge. In a sane world, Orange Line frequency and ridership would increase if 35W loses some lanes, not decrease.

[HiawathaGuy]

Any super sleuths who have extra time can attend one of the public meetings next week (Tue in Bloomington, Thur in Burnsville) on this project: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... tings.html.

About this project
Summary of work
Reconstruct I-35W Bridge spanning the Minnesota River
Replace pavement from Cliff Road to 106th Street
Construct northbound auxiliary lane between Cliff Road and 106th Street
Construct Trail between Cliff Road and 106th Street
Improve signing, lighting and drainage

Cost
$140 million

[mattaudio]

I think @sdho was planning to attend.

[Mdcastle]

I live a couple of miles away so I'll be there. I never liked that they restriped the southbound side to 4 substandard lanes and almost no shoulder, so I'm looking forward to this when that will presumably be corrected to meet standards. Every decade or so they need to build a dike to protect the freeway, so I'm assuming this will address that.

[twincitizen]

More important than the MN River bridge project, the 35W/494 interchange must get (at least partially) funded in 2016 for the Orange Line to have any hopes of beginning service in 2019.

To intercomnut's original question: If funding for the MN River bridge did not materialize (i.e. it stays on its original schedule for replacement in 2020-21 instead of bumping it up to 2017-18), the Orange Line could still begin service with a terminus at 98th Street. That option is definitely on the table. They would not begin service across the MN river bridge only to disrupt it two years later. The nice thing about this option is that it breaks cleanly along county lines. Dakota County would be minimally involved until it reaches their shores. They would (hopefully) remain supportive of the project at CTIB, allowing the northern 80% of the line to open on time, knowing that their segment would open as soon as possible.

The 2016 legislative session should clear a lot of this up. These projects will either get bonded for or we'll finally get a transportation bill, or neither. I'm fairly confident the 494/35W interchange will get funded. It's too important a project to not happen. Likely Bloomington's #1 public works priority. I'd say it's Richfield's #1 bonding priority too, but there's that stupid 77th Street underpass to the airport that some politicos (local and state) are still obsessed with (even though Richfield did get $10MM last year, they still don't have enough to build it).

Can anyone recall if the 35-Lake Access project has been fully funded yet? Or is that still waiting on a state commitment? Obviously that will all get funded, but I'm curious if it has been actually secured yet. Hennepin County / CTIB / Met Council funds are committed for the transit-specific and Lake Street portions of the project. MNDOT/Feds pay for the highway-specific components.

[froggie]

Can anyone recall if the 35-Lake Access project has been fully funded yet? Or is that still waiting on a state commitment?

The bridges from 26th St north are fully funded, as part of the Chapter 152 Bridge program (the SB 35W overpass over the NB downtown exit is legislatively required to be replaced by 2018). Not sure offhand about at Lake St proper. But I know MnDOT's been trying to coordinate so it all gets built at once so that there isn't further disruption.

[HiawathaGuy]

Can anyone recall if the 35-Lake Access project has been fully funded yet? Or is that still waiting on a state commitment? Obviously that will all get funded, but I'm curious if it has been actually secured yet. Hennepin County / CTIB / Met Council funds are committed for the transit-specific and Lake Street portions of the project. MNDOT/Feds pay for the highway-specific components.

From a few pages back: http://finance-commerce.com/transit/201 ... t-project/
I believe this funding includes the new Lake Street bridge.

[froggie]

I know Jim Grube (the Hennepin County highway engineer) personally and shot him an E-mail as a follow-up. He says the Transit/Access part of the project is not yet fully funded...the county and city are requesting $25 million in bonding to fill the gap.

[twincitizen]

Froggie - that sounds about right.

The funds mentioned in that F&C article are strictly for the BRT-specific components (for the most part) since the money is coming from CTIB and the FTA. That funding is for the transit stations, buses, and related infrastructure, and sounds like it's all in place. The funding commitment I was questioning was actually the road-specific pieces, including new 35W bridges over Lake & 31st, new SB exit to Lake, and new NB exit to 28th.

[Mdcastle]

Bloomington seems to not be as interested in agitating for projects as Richfield is, to the extent they are it seems the westbound Bush Lake Road on-ramp, to help address the problems at 84th and Normandale, is a bigger priority.

[intercomnut]

Some decisions according to the latest Transportation Committee update:

Downtown Minneapolis: Metro Transit will construct a new flyover ramp between 12th St and SB 35W/Highway 65 that'll allow NB and SB buses to access 35W directly. 12th St will have a contraflow lane added between Highway 65 and 2nd Ave to allow NB buses to access 2nd Ave.

Knox: Apparently they haven't decided if they'll go with the direct or curved alignment.

Southern Terminus: The station will be located at Traveler's Trail. However, there will be a NB station on the NB 35W ramp at Burnsville Parkway.

[Tcmetro]

I'm not a fan of the Travelers Trail site, and opposed to not serving the Burnsville Transit Station. It causes many problems for transit riders, and at the surface appears to be yet another example of the lack of cooperation between suburban transit authorities and Metro Transit/Met Council.

- Transfers from NB/SB 444 to Orange Line require crossing a 5-lane street to a bus stop that is not ADA compliant and only features a bench with no shading from the sun. Transfers from Orange Line to SB 444 will require the 444 to enter the Orange Line terminal because of traffic issues on Nicollet at the farside of Highway 13. Transfers from the Orange Line to NB 444 buses will also be difficult as the closest NB 444 bus stop is 1/2 mile away, at the Madison Trail apartment complex. 444 is an important route with over 1,000 riders per day and can be expected to have significant transfer activity. Will MVTA reroute the 444 to the Travelers Trail stop instead of BTS?

- Ditto for local routes 421, 426, and the tail of 465.

- Riders who decide to park at Burnsville Transit Station, take a 460 or 465 express inbound and take the Orange Line back or vice-versa are stuck with crossing 5 lanes of Nicollet Ave, as well as a *very* dangerous crossing of Highway 13, where traffic moves at 55+ mph and there is significant truck and turning traffic.

- I fail to see how the transit market can support the Orange Line and off-peak service on the 465 express. Current service expansions to 30-minute frequency on the 465 are funded by a CMAQ grant. Ridership is University heavy, with buses running relatively empty southbound in the AM and northbound in the PM. This CMAQ funding will end soon, and it makes little sense for MVTA to throw money away at a service that will definitely lose ridership with the opening of the Orange Line, which will have better frequency and hours and a lower fare.

- Park and Riders have no access to Orange Line in this scenario. Both Heart of the City and Burnsville Station are a significant walk away from the Orange Line station. It is ridiculously stupid to not make use of existing park and ride facilities.

[Mdcastle]

Thought I'd mention what was discussed at the I-35W bridge meeting in regards to the Orange Line in here. Even though there will be a HOT Lane in the peak direction, they're concerned about the ability of Orange Line buses to get in and out of the lane, since both Burnsville and 98th will off to the right. There will be increased congestion in the regular lanes due to not having the southbound auxiliary lane, and the "traffic calming" of substandard lane widths with no shoulders..

[mattaudio]

This is why it's ridic that the plans for TH13 interchange redo do not include direct MnPASS lane access to/from 35W.

And why 98th Street needs an online station. I think it would be possible with the existing 98th St bridge, especially if it was offset slightly to the south (just as the current offline station is). There's an extra 30+ feet of open bridge space along the northbound lanes under the 98th St bridge. By bowing out the northbound lanes and having the HOV exit/entrance sit east of the mid pier, it would definitely be possible.

[David Greene]

Scott Dibble has started a Facebook conversation about this project. I did not realize that the Lake St. transit portion is not yet funded. Without state bonding money this year we'll get a reworked freeway with no transit improvements at Lake!

[Tcmetro]

There's no way the Orange Line is opening in 2019 with the construction projects that need to be completed first. MnDot shows the Lake St project wrapping up in fall 2021, MN River bridge in 2021, and no mention of the 35W/494 project.