Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

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Silophant
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Silophant » November 28th, 2018, 2:27 pm

Woooo!

Does anyone know if they've started procuring the actual buses yet? Hopefully they can get some experience with the full electric buses on the C Line before they commit to diesels for this.

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sdho
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby sdho » November 28th, 2018, 2:48 pm

This is sweet news. I hadn't even heard about electric buses on the C line? That would be awesome if feasible.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mamundsen » November 28th, 2018, 5:23 pm

Nick thinks this is the best METRO project in development. Huh??? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I thought for sure he was being sarcastic.

https://twitter.com/nickmagrino/status/ ... 54144?s=21

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » November 28th, 2018, 5:34 pm

Well, he’s entitled to his wrong opinion.

Who is he? I’ve heard the name before.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby tmart » November 28th, 2018, 11:14 pm

He’s the Mayoral Representative on the Minneapolis Planning Commission. He has also written posts on the streets.mn main page.

These types of hot takes aren’t out of character for him, though usually it’s “this thing is bad and we shouldn’t do it.” I’m not one to lash out too much at people being farcical or sarcastic on Twitter, but I do think it’d be appropriate to offer a bit more substance in this case if he truly thinks this. Personally this is the project I’m the most skeptical of and this could use more justification IMO.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Anondson » November 29th, 2018, 12:02 am

Nick often frames it from the perspective that transit money is pretty much a pie of a not-too-flexible size. Its focus needs to be moving the most people per dollar. $2B for SWLRT literally diverts money away from improving dozens of transit lines serving neighborhoods proven to have transit demand, through a decades-long bewildering dance of governments.

For a fraction of the cost, in a fraction of the time, we get a high frequency transit line connecting places.

But maybe I’m reading Nick wrong.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Tyler » November 29th, 2018, 12:15 am

#whoisnickmagrino
Towns!

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby tmart » November 29th, 2018, 12:53 am

Nick often frames it from the perspective that transit money is pretty much a pie of a not-too-flexible size. Its focus needs to be moving the most people per dollar. $2B for SWLRT literally diverts money away from improving dozens of transit lines serving neighborhoods proven to have transit demand, through a decades-long bewildering dance of governments.

For a fraction of the cost, in a fraction of the time, we get a high frequency transit line connecting places.

But maybe I’m reading Nick wrong.
Yeah, I would agree with that reading.

I don't at all agree with his assumptions, though--I think we should work to try and increase transit funding, and I think one of the ways we do that is by offering proposals and lines that justify more funding because they are higher in quality, and larger in extent, than the existing network of mostly infrequent mixed-traffic buses.

I also think riders per dollar spent is a useful but very incomplete metric. Customer satisfaction, CO2 emissions, scalability for future ridership growth, impact on urban development, travel time, equity, and lots of other goals need to factor in as well.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby COLSLAW5 » November 29th, 2018, 7:04 am

Does anyone know if they've started procuring the actual buses yet? Hopefully they can get some experience with the full electric buses on the C Line before they commit to diesels for this.
The electric buses for the C line are to start being delivered in the next month or so. The charging systems for these buses are complex and require Excel to hook up because of the size of the service. They have already received diesel articulated aBRT bus to use on the new C line as well.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Didier » November 29th, 2018, 8:59 am

I typically blame most things on Nick.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby alexschief » November 29th, 2018, 9:04 am

Looks like USDOT is finally loosening its grip on the appropriated transit money. I wonder whether they have been under pressure that has forced their hand, or whether there was some weird internal process that was taking a long time. Either way, it suggests that SWLRT will get its money on time. The Met Council seems very good at getting New Starts and other FAST money.

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Re: Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

Postby twincitizen » December 5th, 2018, 1:22 pm

MnDOT has some neat drone footage of the project: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/35w94/visual.html#drone

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Re: Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

Postby Tcmetro » December 7th, 2018, 7:10 pm

Updated timeline shows service starting Q3/Q4 2021:

https://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meetin ... -Line.aspx

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Re: Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

Postby twincitizen » December 14th, 2018, 12:08 pm

No new news for us nerds, but here's the latest project update email blast: http://metroorangeline.cmail19.com/t/Vi ... 32AAFB68BF

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Re: Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

Postby twincitizen » December 18th, 2018, 10:53 am

On my way home from Southdale last night, I was racing against a northbound 465 bus in the crosstown commons, and had the following thought...is MVTA planning to restructure service?

With the Orange Line running every 10-15 minutes well into the evenings, it would seem that MVTA could cut back a lot (or all) of their trips to downtown outside of peak hours (and drop some less-productive trips a the fringes of peak hours). Obviously there will still be lots of MVTA coaches running express service in peak hours, but it would seem they could redirect the service hours from the more fringe-y stuff into dramatically increasing service on local/circulator routes like the 426 Burnsville Shuttle

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Re: Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

Postby mattaudio » December 18th, 2018, 11:13 am

Wouldn't that make your average MVTA coach even less productive on a per-day basis and increase operating costs? I wonder how that plays out.

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Re: Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

Postby Tcmetro » December 18th, 2018, 11:32 am

It's a good question. MVTA was not keen on the Orange Line serving the Burnsville Transit Station (which is why it stops at Travelers Trail instead), so I would imagine they are going to keep service. I could see them dropping the South Bloomington stop, and perhaps skipping downtown on their midday runs ( U students are big rider constituency).

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Re: Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

Postby Silophant » December 18th, 2018, 11:44 am

Ugh the opt-outs are a cancer.

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Re: Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

Postby mattaudio » December 18th, 2018, 12:36 pm

It seems crazy that Burnsville will have three major transit centers on the same street within about a half mile distance:
- Burnsville TS (parking ramp with 1300 spaces) where the core routes are 460 and 465U.
- Heart of the City Park and Ride (parking ramp with 370 parking spaces) serving MVTA 464 and 465U.
- Nicollet Avenue Station between them, with zero parking. https://www.metrotransit.org/orange-lin ... ue-station

It's about a ten minute walk from BVTS to HOC, with the new Nicollet Station halfway in between. Is this MVTA's way of intentionally setting up the Orange Line for failure regarding off-peak connectivity between the two Park and Rides and the rest of the Orange Line corridor including DT Mpls?

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Re: Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

Postby Tcmetro » December 18th, 2018, 9:16 pm

There were two concerns about using Burnsville Transit Station for the Orange Line. The first was that the bus stops are crowded at peak and there are too many buses in the staging bays. The second was that the parking ramp is already filed by 460/465 passengers and that there wouldn't be any spare capacity for new Orange Line riders.

I believe (but may be wrong) that the performing arts center parking ramp on Travelers Trail will be opened to Orange Line riders. The transfer situation between local buses (426/444) and the Orange Line also doesn't seem to be ideal. I wonder what kind of reconfigurations they are considering.


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