urbanMSP

Well, he’s entitled to his wrong opinion.

Who is he? I’ve heard the name before.

He’s the Mayoral Representative on the Minneapolis Planning Commission. He has also written posts on the streets.mn main page.

These types of hot takes aren’t out of character for him, though usually it’s “this thing is bad and we shouldn’t do it.” I’m not one to lash out too much at people being farcical or sarcastic on Twitter, but I do think it’d be appropriate to offer a bit more substance in this case if he truly thinks this. Personally this is the project I’m the most skeptical of and this could use more justification IMO.

Nick often frames it from the perspective that transit money is pretty much a pie of a not-too-flexible size. Its focus needs to be moving the most people per dollar. $2B for SWLRT literally diverts money away from improving dozens of transit lines serving neighborhoods proven to have transit demand, through a decades-long bewildering dance of governments.

For a fraction of the cost, in a fraction of the time, we get a high frequency transit line connecting places.

But maybe I’m reading Nick wrong.

#whoisnickmagrino

Nick often frames it from the perspective that transit money is pretty much a pie of a not-too-flexible size. Its focus needs to be moving the most people per dollar. $2B for SWLRT literally diverts money away from improving dozens of transit lines serving neighborhoods proven to have transit demand, through a decades-long bewildering dance of governments.

For a fraction of the cost, in a fraction of the time, we get a high frequency transit line connecting places.

But maybe I’m reading Nick wrong.

Yeah, I would agree with that reading.

I don't at all agree with his assumptions, though--I think we should work to try and increase transit funding, and I think one of the ways we do that is by offering proposals and lines that justify more funding because they are higher in quality, and larger in extent, than the existing network of mostly infrequent mixed-traffic buses.

I also think riders per dollar spent is a useful but very incomplete metric. Customer satisfaction, CO2 emissions, scalability for future ridership growth, impact on urban development, travel time, equity, and lots of other goals need to factor in as well.

Does anyone know if they've started procuring the actual buses yet? Hopefully they can get some experience with the full electric buses on the C Line before they commit to diesels for this.

The electric buses for the C line are to start being delivered in the next month or so. The charging systems for these buses are complex and require Excel to hook up because of the size of the service. They have already received diesel articulated aBRT bus to use on the new C line as well.

I typically blame most things on Nick.

Looks like USDOT is finally loosening its grip on the appropriated transit money. I wonder whether they have been under pressure that has forced their hand, or whether there was some weird internal process that was taking a long time. Either way, it suggests that SWLRT will get its money on time. The Met Council seems very good at getting New Starts and other FAST money.

MnDOT has some neat drone footage of the project: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/35w94/visual.html#drone

Updated timeline shows service starting Q3/Q4 2021:

https://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meetin ... -Line.aspx

No new news for us nerds, but here's the latest project update email blast: http://metroorangeline.cmail19.com/t/Vi ... 32AAFB68BF

On my way home from Southdale last night, I was racing against a northbound 465 bus in the crosstown commons, and had the following thought...is MVTA planning to restructure service?

With the Orange Line running every 10-15 minutes well into the evenings, it would seem that MVTA could cut back a lot (or all) of their trips to downtown outside of peak hours (and drop some less-productive trips a the fringes of peak hours). Obviously there will still be lots of MVTA coaches running express service in peak hours, but it would seem they could redirect the service hours from the more fringe-y stuff into dramatically increasing service on local/circulator routes like the 426 Burnsville Shuttle

Wouldn't that make your average MVTA coach even less productive on a per-day basis and increase operating costs? I wonder how that plays out.

It's a good question. MVTA was not keen on the Orange Line serving the Burnsville Transit Station (which is why it stops at Travelers Trail instead), so I would imagine they are going to keep service. I could see them dropping the South Bloomington stop, and perhaps skipping downtown on their midday runs ( U students are big rider constituency).

Ugh the opt-outs are a cancer.

It seems crazy that Burnsville will have three major transit centers on the same street within about a half mile distance:
- Burnsville TS (parking ramp with 1300 spaces) where the core routes are 460 and 465U.
- Heart of the City Park and Ride (parking ramp with 370 parking spaces) serving MVTA 464 and 465U.
- Nicollet Avenue Station between them, with zero parking. https://www.metrotransit.org/orange-lin ... ue-station

It's about a ten minute walk from BVTS to HOC, with the new Nicollet Station halfway in between. Is this MVTA's way of intentionally setting up the Orange Line for failure regarding off-peak connectivity between the two Park and Rides and the rest of the Orange Line corridor including DT Mpls?

There were two concerns about using Burnsville Transit Station for the Orange Line. The first was that the bus stops are crowded at peak and there are too many buses in the staging bays. The second was that the parking ramp is already filed by 460/465 passengers and that there wouldn't be any spare capacity for new Orange Line riders.

I believe (but may be wrong) that the performing arts center parking ramp on Travelers Trail will be opened to Orange Line riders. The transfer situation between local buses (426/444) and the Orange Line also doesn't seem to be ideal. I wonder what kind of reconfigurations they are considering.

Those concerns about the Orange Line at BVTS seem to make the assumption that Orange Line and 460 riders are distinct populations. Whereas transit services work together in an ecosystem to support different trips at different times. If the Orange Line served the existing transit stations, then the Orange Line would be a great option for people who can use the 460 for half of their trip but need the Orange Line to work early or late, etc.

Given that it is the terminus (for now), it seems relatively harmless to do several stops close together in downtown Burnsville.

I was under the impression one of the big issues was what a bleak-as-hell walk it is from Heart of the City proper across the Sibley Hwy to BVTS.

I think it will see a lot more ridership with a Heart of the City station.

I hope this is someday adjusted to operate as Arterial BRT from 13/Nicollet south on Nicollet to Burnsville Center. As ABRT, it could serve BVTS, HOC P&R, Burnsville Civic Center, McAndrews Road/Ridges Campus, County 42/Nicollet, then Burnsville Mall/ "Center Village."

The Travelers Trail/Burnsville Pkwy station seems like a mistake, since it doesn't serve a land use with much potential (up against a freeway and interchange ramps), though thankfully not very expensive.

The comment about BVTS being at capacity seems like *maybe not the best thing* since it induces lots of trips on the congested 35W corridor south of TH13 for people commuting to the park and ride. I know this, since I routinely did this trip when growing up in Lakeville even after the Kenrick/467 station opened. The 460 and and 477 (AVTS) are the core MVTA routes that are scheduled nose to tail during rush hours. The downside to that high of a frequency is drawing commuters from a huge travelshed who often drive past other park and ride facilities. One upside to the highway BRT idea seems like it would be balancing out demand and service to park & rides in a travelshed, since you can still maintain core express routes during rush hours while supplementing with all-day frequent point to point service to a line of stations.