Riverview Corridor Streetcar

[seanrichardryan]

You realize the only historic part of Fort Snelling is the Round Tower, right? Everything else is a post-WW2 replica (unless we're at the point when the replica is considered historic). .

The *historic fort has 4 original buildings: Round tower, officer's quarters, commanding officer's quarters, & something else I can't recall, Maybe the hex tower? The later buildings to the west and the upper post are all considered historic, and would all be adjacent to an LRT alignment.

[seanrichardryan]

That's not to say they buildings weren't expanded & modernized, but those layers were stripped away.

[Uptown46]

Also, historically rail transit ran very close to the fort/round tower: http://www.cityhistory.us/stpaul/images ... _house.jpg

[MN Fats]

^^ Wow, great pic.

[minneboom]

I was disappointed that the article did not mention more about the Ford Spur and 46th St route. I hope they are still considering a modern streetcar or BRT along this route, and do not become entirely focused on the downtown St. Paul/Airport connection. I agree downtown St. Paul/Airport connection is probably the highest priority, but connecting the 46th St Station, Minnehaha Park, Highland Park, the Ford Site, and W 7th is also critical.

[Silophant]

I agree that it is critical to get more transit connections to the Ford site, but as far as the main Riverview corridor goes, I don't see it as being anything more than a minor consideration. There's not going to be an entirely new river crossing as a part of this project, so the routing through the Highland Park area is going to be determined by which bridge is more feasible to retrofit/rebuild. If its the Ford Bridge, LRT will go through the Ford site. If its the Hwy. 5 Bridge, then it won't. That's pretty much all there is to it.

[minneboom]

There is still the option for other forms of transportation over the Ford Bridge, such as a street car or BRT. The long term street car network for St. Paul identifies Ford Pkwy, the Ford Spur, and Snelling Ave as future routes, which could supplement a more direct LRT line along W 7th St. Additionally, this route is also targeted as an arterial BRT route.

I am just hoping that there will be a lot of focus on these other connections in addition to the downtown St. Paul/Airport LRT.

[mattaudio]

(We do have aBRT opening on Ford Parkway and Snelling next spring)

[Mikey]

There is noise to move the Visitor Center from its current spot to the red-roofed building in the above picture, cramming more things closer to Hwy 5 (apparently underground buildings were a bad idea in hindsight)

The current visitors center is BAD (my wife works there in the summer) - some of the lower portions are basically abandoned since the floor heaved up a couple years ago. Plus, the State Archeology Dept is based in that building. Moving the visitors center is the Historical Society's #1 bonding priority for this session

[froggie]

Catching up from the past few days...

I'm with MNDible regarding the Fort Rd Bridge. I believe the bridge will have to be replaced in order to have the structural strength to add a second deck, ESPECIALLY if we want to add heavy LRT vehicles to that second deck. I don't think the existing bridge could be rehabilitated to be able to add a second deck. Given that they're in the process of redecking the bridge, I doubt we'll see any interest in a new bridge anytime soon.

Regarding routing through the Fort Snelling area, I found a routing that I believe is fairly feasible. I intend at some point to do a more detailed analysis of this area. While some may complain about a modern transit line with overhead wires next to a historic landmark, I personally think that's the least of the concerns, and I believe there would be a net benefit, not just to transit, but also to Fort Snelling visitation if there's a station there. With a fairly decent sized parking lot already on the premises, there's no reason why a station couldn't be located there and serve double-duty as both Fort access and a park-and-ride.

[David Greene]

With a fairly decent sized parking lot already on the premises, there's no reason why a station couldn't be located there and serve double-duty as both Fort access and a park-and-ride.

Stations should be "Fort Snelling" and "Fort Snelling West."

Almost no one thinks of the current station as being at Fort Snelling.

[Mikey]

People come into the Historical Fort all the time looking for the Cemetery or the State Park visitors center, etc. Apparently, a lot of them get angry when they find out they're in the wrong place

Also, lots of people (angry phone calls even) were convinced the proposed Upper Post conversion into affordable housing meant they were going to tear down the old fort to build apartments for "those people"...

[HiawathaGuy]

With a fairly decent sized parking lot already on the premises, there's no reason why a station couldn't be located there and serve double-duty as both Fort access and a park-and-ride.

Stations should be "Fort Snelling" and "Fort Snelling West."

Almost no one thinks of the current station as being at Fort Snelling.

Agreed! Maybe they could rename the current Fort Snelling to Whipple Federal Building/Upper Post.

[mattaudio]

Fort Snelling Upper Post (existing)
Historic Fort Snelling / State Park (new Riverview station)

[David Greene]

Given Mikey and HiawathaGuy's input, what about:

Upper Post
Historic Fort Snelling

"Whipple Federal Building" is too much of a jumble.

EDIT: Or Matt's suggestion looks good too.

[HiawathaGuy]

Given Mikey and HiawathaGuy's input, what about:

Upper Post
Historic Fort Snelling

"Whipple Federal Building" is too much of a jumble.

EDIT: Or Matt's suggestion looks good too.

Yeah, and more people use the Upper Post station from the Park & Ride than work at the Whipple Federal Building.
I like Matt's suggestions a lot.

[twincitizen]

We've discussed this a little (maybe here, maybe in the MOA thread), but from an operational standpoint, wouldn't Riverview wreak havoc on the current (and planned) setup for train layovers at MOA Station? It seems they are not considering any additional trains in the MOA station renovation. Having Riverview trains terminate here would seem to force an entirely new plan for MOA Station. Meanwhile the MOA Station has been in planning for years and is just looking for that last piece of funding to get built. How soon does this Alternatives Analysis wrap up? I sincerely hope the Riverview project office is talking to Metro Transit staff planning the MOA Station renovation.

[Mikey]

If we were to seriously plan on building a new double decker river bridge, would there be any reason to extend Tower Ave across to Miss River Blvd on the upper level? LRT down the center, a 20 mph street on one side and bike / walking paths on the other.

[HiawathaGuy]

We've discussed this a little (maybe here, maybe in the MOA thread), but from an operational standpoint, wouldn't Riverview wreak havoc on the current (and planned) setup for train layovers at MOA Station? It seems they are not considering any additional trains in the MOA station renovation. Having Riverview trains terminate here would seem to force an entirely new plan for MOA Station. Meanwhile the MOA Station has been in planning for years and is just looking for that last piece of funding to get built. How soon does this Alternatives Analysis wrap up? I sincerely hope the Riverview project office is talking to Metro Transit staff planning the MOA Station renovation.

I really think that MOA's platform can handle both lines as-is, with proper scheduling. But, I too, hope that they've thought about this potential concern.

[LRV Op Dude]

We've discussed this a little (maybe here, maybe in the MOA thread), but from an operational standpoint, wouldn't Riverview wreak havoc on the current (and planned) setup for train layovers at MOA Station? It seems they are not considering any additional trains in the MOA station renovation. Having Riverview trains terminate here would seem to force an entirely new plan for MOA Station. Meanwhile the MOA Station has been in planning for years and is just looking for that last piece of funding to get built. How soon does this Alternatives Analysis wrap up? I sincerely hope the Riverview project office is talking to Metro Transit staff planning the MOA Station renovation.

I really think that MOA's platform can handle both lines as-is, with proper scheduling. But, I too, hope that they've thought about this potential concern.

I disagree.