urbanMSP

I had a fantasy dream of having the C extend across to Kenwood then down Franklin Ave on a bus-only viaduct bridge.

I had a fantasy dream of having the C extend across to Kenwood then down Franklin Ave on a bus-only viaduct bridge.

That is a fabulous idea. In my head it was unfortunate that there was no way to continue past Bryn Mawr station without switching to LRT, but a short bridge like that would be super promising, as would continuing along Franklin. It would certainly be ambitious, but not at all ridiculous or fantasy IMO.

Quoting my post from the last page because your post doesn't make as much sense without it

With the D Line funded and Bottineau LRT looking more and more like it might get rerouted to actually serve North, I was thinking about how there are gonna be three high-frequency lines that originate in North and all run across Downtown in the same direction. If all those lines run with high frequency, it's actually starting to get a bit redundant (which is a fantastic problem to have!).

I wonder if there's any chance that, rather than shifting to Glenwood, it would make sense to have the C Line terminate at Bryn Mawr station so it could act as a feeder for both the Blue and Green Lines. Obviously that would be contingent on both of those lines being built and having high enough frequency that the transfer is very fast. But eventually we'll want to have trunk lines and feeder lines in some reasonable approximation of a grid, rather than just having everything fan out from Downtown, and the C Line is probably the most sensible candidate. As a plus side, by not duplicating all that Downtown service, it potentially frees up capacity for more frequency all around.

The main drawbacks I can see are:
- No one-seat ride Downtown (which isn't actually that important if the trunk lines are high frequency, but planners seem to put a premium on it)
- Losing transfers to D/E/Orange Lines
- No rapid transit on Olson or Glenwood (except N/S at Penn)

The easiest way to extend it south would be to have it Take Cedar Lake Rd/Wayzata Blvd out of Bryn Mawr and then it could take Ewing/France to the W. Lake St SWLRT Station.

The easiest way to extend it south would be to have it Take Cedar Lake Rd/Wayzata Blvd out of Bryn Mawr and then it could take Ewing/France to the W. Lake St SWLRT Station.

There's a lot of dead zone in that route without much transit potential to duplicate a route that could be taken with a transfer to a faster mode of travel. There are some bigger businesses down wayzata blvd but if we're gonna extend it that way id rather see it swing over to the west end. Unless we would cannibalize a big portion of the E line too and run it all the way down to Southdale.

The easiest way to extend it south would be to have it Take Cedar Lake Rd/Wayzata Blvd out of Bryn Mawr and then it could take Ewing/France to the W. Lake St SWLRT Station.

There's a lot of dead zone in that route without much transit potential to duplicate a route that could be taken with a transfer to a faster mode of travel. There are some bigger businesses down wayzata blvd but if we're gonna extend it that way id rather see it swing over to the west end. Unless we would cannibalize a big portion of the E line too and run it all the way down to Southdale.

It's also kind of redundant, since transferring to the Green Line would be a faster way to get to West Lake in most cases. The West End idea is interesting, though I wonder if it would generate much ridership. An extension southward obviously isn't a requirement and in the absence of a slam dunk (say, Franklin) it might make more sense to instead use the shorter route to boost frequency from Brooklyn Center to Bryn Mawr Station.

The idea of extending it to West End or South of the rail trench to south, has too many costs and ineffiencies for what you gained compared to Glenwood which presently has probably more density than most of the C Line and is in the developing Harrison neighborhood. A chunk of this stretch also has some decent size employers. I could even see people from Downtown taking the C Line over here to work or go to La Dona and etc. There is also some space in the Heritage Park to be developed near Glenwood if my memory doesn't fail me.

The idea of extending it to West End or South of the rail trench to south, has too many costs and ineffiencies for what you gained compared to Glenwood which presently has probably more density than most of the C Line and is in the developing Harrison neighborhood. A chunk of this stretch also has some decent size employers. I could even see people from Downtown taking the C Line over here to work or go to La Dona and etc. There is also some space in the Heritage Park to be developed near Glenwood if my memory doesn't fail me.

If we are gonna keep it heading towards downtown assuming a rerouted blue line. I think olsen still ma

If the Blue Line is routed away from Olson Hwy entirely (e.g. heads north from Target Field on 7th), the C Line is a lock to stay on Olson to continue serving that corridor. Shifting the C Line to Glenwood was only conceived because Olson would've been overserved by transit if it was carrying the Blue Line, not because planners thought Glenwood was more deserving of the service than Olson. Remember that the 9 runs on Glenwood, and doesn't have super high ridership between downtown and West End. Jopefully that continues to grow now that they streamlined the service by eliminating its confusing branches. More frequent service can be added with demand as West End and Glenwood continue to infill, adding jobs and residents.

In a perfect world, Olson gets reduced to 4 lanes instead of the current 6, because that huge road is a blight on the area. But in the near-term, let's convert the outer lanes to bus-only lanes between Penn and the turn onto 7th.

As far as extending the C Line south and east of downtown, it seems kind of obvious it should cover the service area of the 14 or 22. Assuming local service sticks around, one idea I had is to keep it on 7th/8th all the way through Elliot Park, even getting onto Hiawatha freeway for a brief second, exiting immediately at Cedar Avenue and then serving Cedar all the way down. For whatever reason, Metro Transit only sees demand for aBRT on Cedar down to 38th, but I'd push for eventually continuing the service to Cedar Point Commons in Richfield.

The city is finishing up re-doing the Penn/Plymouth intersection apparently because of issues with the C-Line I'm guessing. I never saw any information before the construction, but between 14th and Plymouth they've removed the parking and made it into a narrow 2 lane road and added a median to replace the bollards.

I'm honestly unsure of what the effects would be. It sure looks nicer, but I'm afraid it will create safety issues by either:

A) People not slowing down due to narrowness and heading off the road and running into North Point or the Bus Stations,

B) Causing more cars to go into the side roads in my neighborhood creating additional safety issues of cars speeding through the side roads and through stop signs.

The C-Line and former narrowing of Penn has really created a mess and I think they're trying to fix it. They're also redoing Plymouth Avenue between Penn and Theo and placing medians at the intersections to stop cars from passing through instead of taking Penn and taking other steps after getting an earful from residents.

It's cringe-worthy to watch traffic back up behind the buses and reminds me of the stoplight issues with the LRT lines. Maybe they can time the lights to the buses more. Keep the light red while the bus is stopped. I can totally see cars going around the median against traffic to get through a green light when stuck behind a bus.

It's also ironic that the C-Line has been detoured to Knox and Logan and going through neighborhood streets in a not-so rapid fashion.

The Strib reports that the C Line electric buses are sidelined again while MT waits for the depot chargers to be replaced (under warranty). As disappointing as the news was that they decided to go with diesels for the upcoming BRT lines, this news further validates that choice.

The Strib reports that the C Line electric buses are sidelined again while MT waits for the depot chargers to be replaced (under warranty). As disappointing as the news was that they decided to go with diesels for the upcoming BRT lines, this news further validates that choice.

Philly has had major problems with Proterra's model. I'm not at all sure if there's a right choice right now, these companies all seem to be struggling with various parts of the technology.

It's baffling to me that Metro Transit has had so much trouble with these chargers though. Of all the things to go wrong, that part seems (to me, who knows nothing) one of the easier parts to get right.

Especially since it's the depot chargers in the garage, not the (presumably) more complex on route chargers with the pantograph, etc.

I was told by someone who should know that the chargers "literally melted."

I was told by someone who should know that the chargers "literally melted."

Now I understand that battery technology will advance, but for big, heavy vehicles like buses I have no idea why the FTA (or transit agencies in general) are unwilling to use trolley buses for new new starts programs/BRT??? They make sense to me in so many ways:
- No batteries, therefore vehicles are lighter and have quicker acceleration/deceleration
- trolley wires are like “rails” and inform riders of a fixed path
- probably more environmentally friendly, since you don’t need to dig for rare earth metals found in batteries
- also probably cheaper than electric buses

I would really love to see more trolley buses in the US outside of Boston, Seattle, and San Francisco (anywhere else?)

Having experienced trolley buses in Bergen, Norway and Budapest, Hungary (also Boston, but the Silver Line is not the way to go to implement BRT for several reasons) I supported using trolley buses for our aBRT routes back when the A Line was beginning construction. The powers that be however just don't see it as a viable mode of transit in our region. The reasons being maintenance of the wires and poles, having to cut down trees to install wires, residents and businesses likely thinking the wires are an eyesore, and if there's a stalled car or some other obstacle on the route it's not easy to get a trolley bus around it (or if a detour is required then they need to bring in regular buses).

I did find out at work today that our Electric New Flyers should be back out on the C Line next month! So that’s some good news!


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I was told by someone who should know that the chargers "literally melted."

Now I understand that battery technology will advance, but for big, heavy vehicles like buses I have no idea why the FTA (or transit agencies in general) are unwilling to use trolley buses for new new starts programs/BRT??? They make sense to me in so many ways:
- No batteries, therefore vehicles are lighter and have quicker acceleration/deceleration
- trolley wires are like “rails” and inform riders of a fixed path
- probably more environmentally friendly, since you don’t need to dig for rare earth metals found in batteries
- also probably cheaper than electric buses

I would really love to see more trolley buses in the US outside of Boston, Seattle, and San Francisco (anywhere else?)

Dayton, Ohio has them as well.

https://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meetin ... ation.aspx

Met Council approved Olson Memorial as the Long Term Alignment for the C Line on Oct 24th. Permanent stations will be built in 2027 when Olson is reconstructed, and stations could become far side and other transit improvements could be implemented as well.

https://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meetin ... ation.aspx

Met Council approved Olson Memorial as the Long Term Alignment for the C Line on Oct 24th. Permanent stations will be built in 2027 when Olson is reconstructed, and stations could become far side and other transit improvements could be implemented as well.

Would love to see them re-imagine this road more. Vacate right away and make more space for TOD. They need to do a traffic study though and any planning should involve Golden Valley. I think more people would take the bus if the stops were better connected to the neighborhood. Also if you lived on one side of 55 and needed to cross to take the C Line in your desired location, many will probably just take their car instead or Uber. Farside stations would help, but who wants to walk across a frontage road and 3 lanes of traffic and red light runners to get to their bus stop?

Check out Bring Back 6th if you haven't already.