Fantasy maps

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
DanPatchToget
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby DanPatchToget » June 13th, 2021, 6:06 pm

As much as MnDOT and HOT lane users wouldn't like it, converting the HOT lanes on I-394 into a bi-directional busway would be great for both a BRT service and all the express routes going in/out of downtown. If you want people out of their cars then having buses fly by them while they're stuck in traffic could help.

Based on the Met Council's proposals it seems their philosophy was building the routes as dirt cheap as possible and using as much existing infrastructure as possible with new stuff mainly being the stations and buses. In terms of using existing infrastructure my proposals would also do that, but it's repurposing traffic lanes for buses on some segments and widening the road with a bus lane in each direction on other segments. Where the Met Council and I really diverge on philosophy is I want the BRT routes to mimic light rail as close as possible while the Met Council is aiming for glorified bus routes like the Red Line.

Trademark
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Trademark » June 13th, 2021, 9:56 pm

As much as MnDOT and HOT lane users wouldn't like it, converting the HOT lanes on I-394 into a bi-directional busway would be great for both a BRT service and all the express routes going in/out of downtown. If you want people out of their cars then having buses fly by them while they're stuck in traffic could help.

Based on the Met Council's proposals it seems their philosophy was building the routes as dirt cheap as possible and using as much existing infrastructure as possible with new stuff mainly being the stations and buses. In terms of using existing infrastructure my proposals would also do that, but it's repurposing traffic lanes for buses on some segments and widening the road with a bus lane in each direction on other segments. Where the Met Council and I really diverge on philosophy is I want the BRT routes to mimic light rail as close as possible while the Met Council is aiming for glorified bus routes like the Red Line.
I know we had a previous back and forth on the I-94 BRT but hopefully that process with the 3 online stations proposed in Minneapolis, shows their willingness to deviate from the 2014 study. Freeways have such a great potential for fast transit and easy legibility. The concerns are definitely pedestrian safety and non car centric amenities surrounding freeways. And the length of time and turns when having to get off the freeway.

I think that aBRT routes should have the same dedicated lane functionality wherever possible that you propose for your routes. And leave the BRT label to something that people know if they get on it will be quick. But like I said I don't mind your concept. One question tho, how did you make it? I want to put my own together and I would love your feedback on it. But I don't know how to embed it into google maps.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby DanPatchToget » June 14th, 2021, 10:50 am

As much as MnDOT and HOT lane users wouldn't like it, converting the HOT lanes on I-394 into a bi-directional busway would be great for both a BRT service and all the express routes going in/out of downtown. If you want people out of their cars then having buses fly by them while they're stuck in traffic could help.

Based on the Met Council's proposals it seems their philosophy was building the routes as dirt cheap as possible and using as much existing infrastructure as possible with new stuff mainly being the stations and buses. In terms of using existing infrastructure my proposals would also do that, but it's repurposing traffic lanes for buses on some segments and widening the road with a bus lane in each direction on other segments. Where the Met Council and I really diverge on philosophy is I want the BRT routes to mimic light rail as close as possible while the Met Council is aiming for glorified bus routes like the Red Line.
I know we had a previous back and forth on the I-94 BRT but hopefully that process with the 3 online stations proposed in Minneapolis, shows their willingness to deviate from the 2014 study. Freeways have such a great potential for fast transit and easy legibility. The concerns are definitely pedestrian safety and non car centric amenities surrounding freeways. And the length of time and turns when having to get off the freeway.

I think that aBRT routes should have the same dedicated lane functionality wherever possible that you propose for your routes. And leave the BRT label to something that people know if they get on it will be quick. But like I said I don't mind your concept. One question tho, how did you make it? I want to put my own together and I would love your feedback on it. But I don't know how to embed it into google maps.
Assuming you have a Gmail account, you go to Google Maps, click on the Google Maps menu, click Your Places, click Maps, and then there should be an option to create your own map. It's not the greatest especially if you make a lot of lines and points, but it's easy to use and a pretty good way of showing a route or a system that is to-scale.

Trademark
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Trademark » June 14th, 2021, 12:55 pm

As much as MnDOT and HOT lane users wouldn't like it, converting the HOT lanes on I-394 into a bi-directional busway would be great for both a BRT service and all the express routes going in/out of downtown. If you want people out of their cars then having buses fly by them while they're stuck in traffic could help.

Based on the Met Council's proposals it seems their philosophy was building the routes as dirt cheap as possible and using as much existing infrastructure as possible with new stuff mainly being the stations and buses. In terms of using existing infrastructure my proposals would also do that, but it's repurposing traffic lanes for buses on some segments and widening the road with a bus lane in each direction on other segments. Where the Met Council and I really diverge on philosophy is I want the BRT routes to mimic light rail as close as possible while the Met Council is aiming for glorified bus routes like the Red Line.
I know we had a previous back and forth on the I-94 BRT but hopefully that process with the 3 online stations proposed in Minneapolis, shows their willingness to deviate from the 2014 study. Freeways have such a great potential for fast transit and easy legibility. The concerns are definitely pedestrian safety and non car centric amenities surrounding freeways. And the length of time and turns when having to get off the freeway.

I think that aBRT routes should have the same dedicated lane functionality wherever possible that you propose for your routes. And leave the BRT label to something that people know if they get on it will be quick. But like I said I don't mind your concept. One question tho, how did you make it? I want to put my own together and I would love your feedback on it. But I don't know how to embed it into google maps.
Assuming you have a Gmail account, you go to Google Maps, click on the Google Maps menu, click Your Places, click Maps, and then there should be an option to create your own map. It's not the greatest especially if you make a lot of lines and points, but it's easy to use and a pretty good way of showing a route or a system that is to-scale.
Sounds good! Thanks. I'll be making my own maps too. I look forward to your feedback!

DanPatchToget
Wells Fargo Center
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Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm

Re: Fantasy maps

Postby DanPatchToget » June 27th, 2021, 7:20 pm

An update to my rapid transit and regional rail system map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... sp=sharing

The main changes from the previous version:
-Color names for the LRT and BRT routes have been replaced with a naming system that is simpler (in theory). MR means Metro Rail and each route is given a number. MB means Metro Bus and each route is also given a number. aBRT routes continue to have letters.
-Extension of the Green Line to Shakopee, Chaska, and Carver from Eden Prairie has been removed. I won't say it's not worth at least looking at light rail or regional rail along this route, but there's a few physical and political barriers (I'm looking at you Bearpath) to making it happen. In my perfect world a better job would've been done to preserve the railroad right-of-way and make it a feasible route for regional and intercity rail from Minneapolis to Mankato and beyond.
-The western extension of the Riverview Corridor from Mall of America to Eden Prairie has been removed in favor of BRT routes, which I posted about here recently.
-BRT route on Highway 55 from Minneapolis to Plymouth added.
-The BRT service along the I-394 Corridor from Minneapolis to Wayzata has been modified with two types of service: a local route that goes as far west as Plymouth Road Park & Ride, and an express route that goes all the way to Wayzata. While both routes have a similar number of stops, the express route skips most stops until the Ridgedale Center area.
-Flag stops have been added to several regional rail routes, which allows rural towns that don't have the demand for a scheduled station stop to benefit more directly from regional rail. If a person wants to get off at a flag stop they simply inform the conductor, and if a person wants to board at a flag stop they activate a signal at the station at least 5 minutes before the train arrives so the train can safely stop and pick up that person.
-Extension of the G Line to connect with the I-35E BRT.
-Several modifications to LRT and BRT routes from the previous version such as BRT routings in the downtowns, terminal stations, station locations, etc.

DanPatchToget
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby DanPatchToget » August 18th, 2021, 11:18 am

Some proposed trail improvements at Hyland Lake Park Reserve in Bloomington: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... sp=sharing

The main benefits would be reducing the barrier the Dan Patch Line creates in accessing the park from neighborhoods on the east side of the tracks, as well as providing more recreational opportunities for people of all ages and abilities.

Hero
Landmark Center
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Hero » September 6th, 2021, 2:23 am

I've been wondering why Route 14 wasn't moved to Richfield Parkway when that road was reconstructed a few years back. Maybe add a stop by the Home Depot and Target? I bet more people would take the bus to Target if they had a stop that was closer. Or is there a reason to keep the current configuration?

suppose I should draw up a map to keep this on topic.

Hero
Landmark Center
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Hero » September 7th, 2021, 2:10 pm

Here is a map of the new route south of 63rd st. I extended it a couple blocks to pick up the new apartment complex. Probably should extend it further.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/44.8799 ... 889043!3e0

DanPatchToget
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby DanPatchToget » October 5th, 2021, 3:27 pm

I updated my regional rail map. Mainly cleaning it up and organizing, but also some route and station modifications. The biggest change is an extension of the Rice Creek Corridor to Maple Grove via 610 and 169. This makes the L4 a crosstown service for both the north and south metro. https://photos.app.goo.gl/HTri5ydtjgRGHVXaA

And here's the Google Maps version with all proposed Metro and regional rail routes and stations that account for the changes made: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?fb ... 523153&z=8

DanPatchToget
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby DanPatchToget » January 15th, 2022, 6:55 pm

Monorail system along the I-394 and I-494 corridors:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit? ... sp=sharing

I spent more time on this than I had originally planned, but overall I think it looks pretty good. I guess this is a half-serious idea, but mostly just experimenting with how well an elevated monorail system could serve these corridors that have lots of residences and jobs that aren't neatly clustered together due to suburban logic. Obviously there would be several cost, engineering, and NIMBYism challenges (especially in affluent Minnetonka and Wayzata), but it does simplify the transit network in areas that currently need several bus routes to serve all of these destinations. While I would prefer something like this, I'd settle with BRT routes that meet the ITDP's gold standard.

DanPatchToget
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby DanPatchToget » January 27th, 2022, 6:58 pm

The discussion in the Roseville thread about the Snelling & 36 Interchange reminded me of this map I made of a significantly modified Rosedale area that includes a busway for the A Line and a future BRT route on/along Highway 36:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9rUJ6tezYW9cHpaW9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kmTtdpyneBinK1Yi6

Trademark
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Trademark » January 27th, 2022, 10:22 pm

The discussion in the Roseville thread about the Snelling & 36 Interchange reminded me of this map I made of a significantly modified Rosedale area that includes a busway for the A Line and a future BRT route on/along Highway 36:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9rUJ6tezYW9cHpaW9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kmTtdpyneBinK1Yi6
Way too much traffic on Snelling for a double roundabout.

DanPatchToget
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby DanPatchToget » January 27th, 2022, 11:16 pm

Aren't roundabouts designed to handle high traffic volumes? Also with free-rights like what they have at the roundabout at Flying Cloud & Hwy 101 that would reduce the amount of traffic having to go through the roundabout.

Trademark
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Trademark » January 28th, 2022, 8:53 am

Aren't roundabouts designed to handle high traffic volumes? Also with free-rights like what they have at the roundabout at Flying Cloud & Hwy 101 that would reduce the amount of traffic having to go through the roundabout.
Roundabouts can handle a decent amount of traffic, but there reaches a point where it tops off. Ive seen it happen in Richfield before where traffic is backed up for 6 blocks on Nicollet entering the roundabout. Granted the capacity of this roundabout is higher but with such a high amount of north south traffic I could easily envision a situation where the ramps off 36 get extremely backed up waiting for Westbound to Southbound and Eastbound to Northbound movements to have a window to get in. Im for roundabouts in a lot of scenarios. Plenty of our streets can be improved by them. But unless we are talking about rural areas I don't think there's much of a place for them on our roads.

alexschief
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby alexschief » January 28th, 2022, 4:58 pm

With a lot of design concepts borrowed from the great Mapping Twin Cities effort by Kyril Negoda and team (the Tumblr is down, but you can still see their work here, I've been building my own MSP transit map from scratch. I'd love your feedback at this stage:

Image
(Click through to download for the full size)

Beneath the hood, each line is its own layer, and so I'm working to ultimately make a GIF out of this that shows the step-by-step growth of the system. (Couldn't resist sharing this earlier version here.

I've been pretty true to what's planned, with the exception that I've extended the Red Line BRT to downtown Minneapolis and made it pink, then re-applied the Red color to the Riverview line, and only showed one station in the Maynard/Davern area because I cannot for the life of me understand why they want to put two there.

thespeedmccool
Union Depot
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby thespeedmccool » January 29th, 2022, 12:33 am

With a lot of design concepts borrowed from the great Mapping Twin Cities effort by Kyril Negoda and team (the Tumblr is down, but you can still see their work here, I've been building my own MSP transit map from scratch. I'd love your feedback at this stage:

Image
(Click through to download for the full size)

Beneath the hood, each line is its own layer, and so I'm working to ultimately make a GIF out of this that shows the step-by-step growth of the system. (Couldn't resist sharing this earlier version here.

I've been pretty true to what's planned, with the exception that I've extended the Red Line BRT to downtown Minneapolis and made it pink, then re-applied the Red color to the Riverview line, and only showed one station in the Maynard/Davern area because I cannot for the life of me understand why they want to put two there.
I've seen somewhere that the Woodbury P&R Station on the Gold Line was renamed the Woodlane Station. I'm 100% confident that I saw that, but IDK where.

Mdcastle
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Mdcastle » January 29th, 2022, 7:23 am

45,000 vpd entering is one citied "back of the napkin" figure for needing a triple lane roundabout. (A single lane is up to 25K and a double lane is 25-45K) Even with bypass lanes on all four quadrants Snelling and 36 is into that territory with 46,000. Maybe you could "push things" with a two lane roundabout, but you don't want ramp traffic backing up onto the freeway. And there's no room to lengthen the off ramps.

Yes, we could in theory put a triple lane roundabout there, but with a pedestrian having to cross eight lanes of unsignalized traffic why not just build a pedestrian bridge so they cross zero lanes of traffic, and leave the cloverleaf? Between the lane needed for bypass lanes and stormwater ponds and the roundabout itself I'd be surprised if any land was freed up for development.

DanPatchToget
Wells Fargo Center
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Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm

Re: Fantasy maps

Postby DanPatchToget » January 29th, 2022, 5:09 pm

45,000 vpd entering is one citied "back of the napkin" figure for needing a triple lane roundabout. (A single lane is up to 25K and a double lane is 25-45K) Even with bypass lanes on all four quadrants Snelling and 36 is into that territory with 46,000. Maybe you could "push things" with a two lane roundabout, but you don't want ramp traffic backing up onto the freeway. And there's no room to lengthen the off ramps.

Yes, we could in theory put a triple lane roundabout there, but with a pedestrian having to cross eight lanes of unsignalized traffic why not just build a pedestrian bridge so they cross zero lanes of traffic, and leave the cloverleaf? Between the lane needed for bypass lanes and stormwater ponds and the roundabout itself I'd be surprised if any land was freed up for development.
On my map there is a pedestrian bridge that's combined with a busway bridge crossing 36 just west of Snelling.

The areas shown as stormwater ponds don't necessarily have to be stormwater ponds. They could instead be used for development, but I chose to have them be ponds.

Silophant
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby Silophant » January 30th, 2022, 8:53 am

With a lot of design concepts borrowed from the great Mapping Twin Cities effort by Kyril Negoda and team (the Tumblr is down, but you can still see their work here, I've been building my own MSP transit map from scratch. I'd love your feedback at this stage:

Image
(Click through to download for the full size)
I have a hard time believing that whatever the Rethinking 94 process comes out with, it won't at least include an extension of the Gold Line to DT Minneapolis. Though there's not much room for an additional line between Green and B on your map.
Joey Senkyr
[email protected]

mamundsen
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Fantasy maps

Postby mamundsen » January 30th, 2022, 8:58 am

Great map! Seeing it like this makes be wonder why the Hwy 36 BRT is not on the mid term plan. Copy route 270 but make it an all day service with a stop at Rosedale and maybe Rice St.


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