Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
SurlyLHT
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby SurlyLHT » June 10th, 2019, 12:05 pm

At $10 million is a bargain given how much was paid for bridges over freeways and for the MN Vikings. I hope St Paul would hold up their end of the bargain and give us somewhere to bike to!

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Anondson
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby Anondson » June 10th, 2019, 4:36 pm

I’m trying to understand what scenic and ecological harm adding a deck causes?

http://www.startribune.com/midtown-gree ... 511092152/

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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby Silophant » June 10th, 2019, 10:12 pm

It's a change, and Friends of the Mississippi was formed specifically to resist any and all changes to the river.

minneboom
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby minneboom » September 11th, 2019, 9:32 pm

Rally to support the effort to Extend the Greenway over the River to Saint Paul. This Sunday, September 15th.

https://www.facebook.com/events/lake-mo ... 462524168/

alexschief
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby alexschief » September 12th, 2019, 5:39 am

The St. Paul Bicycle Coalition posted a video that shows, via stop motion, the potential connection between the Ayd Mill gulch and the Short Line Bridge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZftMI3wLHPs

When I was a student at Mac, I actually used to live directly next to the railroad, and so I know how much excess right-of-way there is. But even I was surprised by how uncomplicated that right-of-way appears to be, for essentially the entire length of the connection. The only location that would require an unusual capital expenditure would be crossing Prior Ave, where a short new bridge appears necessary.

I'm not alone in thinking this, but extending the Greenway across the bridge is the keystone to a number of brilliant ideas and projects that have been waiting by the wayside. The proposed Prospect Park Trail to the University and the Greenway extension to Ayd Mill Road would be absolute game changers in terms of expanding access via bicycle across the city.

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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby mamundsen » September 12th, 2019, 10:18 am

Would there have to be some sort of barrier between the trails and the tracks? Is that extra space for the potential need for emergency assistance? I feel like the freight rail would want something.

amiller92
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby amiller92 » September 12th, 2019, 10:43 am

Yeah, unless there is more space that can be cleared of vegetation or something, that actually looked pretty tight to me, especially next to a moving train.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby SurlyLHT » September 12th, 2019, 11:04 am

I saw the video, honestly I'm not sure I would take that route to Downtown St Paul if it were built. Lake St Bridge to Marshall or Summit are more scenic.

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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby EOst » September 12th, 2019, 11:34 am

On the plus side, it is (compared to the Lake Street bridge and Marshall) super flat.

alexschief
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby alexschief » September 12th, 2019, 11:51 am

Would there have to be some sort of barrier between the trails and the tracks? Is that extra space for the potential need for emergency assistance? I feel like the freight rail would want something.
I'm sure it'd be just like the Greenway east of Hiawatha, where a fence separates the tracks from the trail. It should be mentioned that there's currently no barrier and people walk or jog along the rail all the time, as you can see in the video.
Yeah, unless there is more space that can be cleared of vegetation or something, that actually looked pretty tight to me, especially next to a moving train.
If it's tighter than the Greenway east of Hiawatha, it's only by a couple of feet. Via Google, I measure the bridge over Snelling as 40', and I measure the bridge over 36th Ave S as 44'.
I saw the video, honestly I'm not sure I would take that route to Downtown St Paul if it were built. Lake St Bridge to Marshall or Summit are more scenic.
Less direct and less beautiful mansions, but safer and with less traffic control. The Greenway is more than a "low-stress" bikeway, it's a stress relieving bikeway. Not having to worry about cars is so liberating. Added bonuses: you could take this not just to downtown, but to Grand or West 7th. Imagine being able to bike from the Midtown Global Market to Keg and Case Market without a single conflict point with cars.

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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby EOst » September 12th, 2019, 12:38 pm

The ROW is much wider than it appears (check it out in Ramsey's property map) but the rail is centered in the ROW. East of Cleveland, a Greenway extension might require rebuilding the northernmost track to serve as a new main line and help buffer the southernmost track (converted to trail) from the rail.

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niaxilin
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby niaxilin » September 23rd, 2019, 5:14 am

The St. Paul Bicycle Coalition posted a video that shows, via stop motion, the potential connection between the Ayd Mill gulch and the Short Line Bridge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZftMI3wLHPs
Video has been taken down by the user. Did the railroad pull some legal punches?

SurlyLHT
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby SurlyLHT » September 23rd, 2019, 7:48 am

That or it was seen as not helping their cause. Unless they got permission they were trespassing which may not have helped relations.

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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby minneboom » October 28th, 2020, 1:18 pm

In council member Cam Gordon’s newsletter apparently the Minnesota Commercial Railroad wants to request state funding to repair the short line bridge. If the bridge is repaired or partially rebuilt there appears to be a real opportunity to add a shared use trail to the bridge and extend the Midtown Greenway over the Mississippi River into Saint Paul. The Midtown Greenway Coalition recently completed a study that provides several options to add a shared use trail to the short line bridge. This seems like a huge opportunity!

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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby alexschief » October 28th, 2020, 1:34 pm

Small correction: CM Gordon's email says that MCR wants to repair the 31st Avenue Bridge.

Gordon's idea is to make community support for that repair to be contingent on the railroads allowing a greenway extension on the Short Line Bridge, and I assume, bundle the bonding request for both projects.

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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby DanPatchToget » October 28th, 2020, 5:57 pm

How much influence does the Minnesota Commercial have compared to Canadian Pacific on the Midtown Greenway being extended across the river? IIRC, CP owns the tracks and the bridge while the Minnesota Commercial has trackage rights on them.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby SurlyLHT » October 29th, 2020, 8:29 am

It's weird that they would request $$ for the 31st Ave bridge, given that it doesn't seem like a huge project to replace. They hurting for $$ perhaps?

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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby DanPatchToget » October 29th, 2020, 11:15 am

Considering the low amount of freight traffic, they probably only make enough money to maintain the tracks to minimum standard. If there's any profit made serving industries along Hiawatha it's likely only in the tens of thousands.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby SurlyLHT » October 29th, 2020, 11:30 am

So if there isn't a deal with the current proposal, could the 31st Ave bridge become unsafe enough to force them to stop utilizing the rest of the trackage? Though, it occurs to me that LRT cars are dropped off near the Sabo Bridge off of this line. Do we have another location where they can take delivery of LRT vehicles? (This may be been previously addressed.)

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Re: Midtown Greenway Trail [not the transit thread]

Postby DanPatchToget » October 29th, 2020, 11:55 am

So if there isn't a deal with the current proposal, could the 31st Ave bridge become unsafe enough to force them to stop utilizing the rest of the trackage? Though, it occurs to me that LRT cars are dropped off near the Sabo Bridge off of this line. Do we have another location where they can take delivery of LRT vehicles? (This may be been previously addressed.)
Possibly, though it may take years for the safety of the bridge to become dire, and even then it may require action by the Federal Railroad Administration to halt train operations.

As for delivering LRT vehicles, currently that spur is the only place where they can be delivered. But it's possible they could connect the St. Paul Green Line storage facility to BNSF tracks and/or connect the future Hopkins light rail facility to the parallel freight tracks.


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