Green Line / Central Corridor construction thread (archive)

[mulad]

No, it was very clear for a long time that this would be LRT.

Hmm. I hadn't really thought about the Moos Tower/Transportation Building stops being removed entirely, but that may be the case.

When I was a student at the U, I remember buses passing each other on a pretty regular basis, but then again I've never seen Washington open only to buses, without cars getting in the way. The campus shuttles can load and unload fairly quickly since they're free, have 3-4 doors, and nobody has to line up to pay -- the biggest delays on that service came from loading/unloading wheelchairs, but that may have gotten better with the mostly Van Hool fleet they have now as compared to what was common when I went there.

I bet Coffman has typically been the busier stop for Metro Transit buses, so it may not be a huge loss to just get rid of the stops by Moos, but it is a significant loss to have to ditch a fairly good transfer point. Will people end up transferring on the West Bank or by TCF Stadium instead? Neither of those are great locations for transfers either.

[Tcmetro]

Is any vehicular traffic allowed on Washington Avenue now that two tracks have been built in the middle?

Cars and trucks are not allowed on the transit-pedestrian mall, which extends from Pleasant Street to Walnut Street. Buses will operate on the guideway. There is one outer lane on each side for emergency vehicles and cyclists only.

Found this here: http://www.metrocouncil.org/Transportat ... /UofM.aspx

Sorry about the confusion about the bus stops at Moos Tower. Early on in the transit mall concept there were stops placed at Walnut St, and I wasn't aware that they were removed from the plan.

Walking along the alignment recently, the lanes look fairly narrow. I honestly have no idea why they would want to run the buses ON the LRT tracks, when the bike lanes could have been a foot or two wider to accommodate the buses.

When service returns there will likely be 22-23 buses per hour during the midday (accounting for the Campus Shuttle running at 5 minute intervals, the 2 improving to 10 min frequency in the RSIP, the 465, 475, and 698, and the occasional 113 or 114 trip). During peak hours, this easily becomes 40 buses per hour.

[MNdible]

Maybe I'm just being dense, but I still don't get it.

The doors are on the wrong sides of the bus. How in the world would they possibly make this work?

[MSPtoMKE]

Buses won't actually stop at the East Bank Station platform, it looks as though they will just use the same lanes as the LRVs. Seems strange to me. So there are no bus stops between Coffman and around Walnut or Oak?

[Tom H.]

If there aren't any stops between Coffman and Oak, then... hmm, I don't know. Before the LRT came through, I think there were at least 3 or 4 tops between the Mississippi River and where Washington merges into University, so downgrading that number to 1 or 2 seems to defeat the purpose of a Transit Mall just a little bit.

[UptownSport]

Wait til there's a good, old fashioned train-bus smash-up.
By then the decision makers will have moved on to their nifty VP positions at Seimens.

[Tcmetro]

AFAIK, there will be no stops from Coffman Union to Oak, which is a terrible idea because then you're missing out on the people who take the bus to the hospital and the businesses over that way.

The 2 and the 121 will stop at Oak after they turn off of Washington, but I wonder about the Owl 16 as well as the express routes.

[FISHMANPET]

There's no way for buses to go between the tracks and the stop at coffman, so I highly doubt that buses will be on the guideway. Also there's no way for them to interact with train signals so I highly doubt they'll be on the rails.

[mulad]

Yeah, there's a barrier wall between the tracks and the busway at Coffman. Of course, bikes should not go on that section of the busway west of Church Street, because otherwise people would be biking on the lower level of the Washington Avenue Bridge.

[mulad]

There's a bit of overhead line work happening right by the Lowertown OMF. New "We really mean it this time!" no-parking signs in place next to the Farmer's Market:

[LRV Op Dude]

Metro Transit buses training on the new Washington Ave Transit Mall at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, MN. The buses will be running on the Metro Green Line right of way through the campus area.

[mulad]

I hope everyone is just being cautious to start out with, since that doesn't seem like a very fast pace. They'll probably have to always go slowly past the platform edge at the East Bank station, though.

[LRV Op Dude]

I hope everyone is just being cautious to start out with, since that doesn't seem like a very fast pace. They'll probably have to always go slowly past the platform edge at the East Bank station, though.

Buses will not go over 15 MPH

[MNdible]

Again, maybe I'm being obtuse on this, but what in the world is the reason for doing this? Besides, of course, eliminating a very high demand bus stop in the heart of campus and generating potential conflicts between buses and LRT vehicles? Oh, and making it more difficult to transfer from bus to LRT?

[mulad]

Because the powers-that-be at the University of Minnesota don't understand how bicycles work.

[Tom H.]

I noticed only MetroTransit buses in that video above - I wonder when opt-out operators will be trained? It looks like express buses will only have the one stop (at Coffman) to drop off and pick up passengers. That seems like a real pain for people working over near the Oak & Washington area.

SouthWest Transit has been operating a bus stop at Oak & Delaware during the Washington Avenue closure - I wonder if they plan to keep using that stop, and if other express buses will use it also?

[helsinki]

what in the world is the reason for doing this?

Yes; could someone please explain why the buses are using the LRT guideway and not the vehicle lane?

[mulad]

I was probably a bit cryptic with my last comment -- my perception is that they did this in order to allow bicycles to use the lane, since the university leadership is paranoid about having bikes go on sidewalks. They probably should have tried to build cycletracks next to the lane and let buses use it instead, but that reduces the amount of sidewalk space for pedestrians, or would have required narrowing the park-like space that has been created between the tracks (or probably some combination of both).

I'm kind of annoyed at myself for not realizing this situation earlier, but I know I'm not the only one who had been scratching their heads over the whole "buses will run in the guideway" concept.

[LRV Op Dude]

Again, maybe I'm being obtuse on this, but what in the world is the reason for doing this? Besides, of course, eliminating a very high demand bus stop in the heart of campus and generating potential conflicts between buses and LRT vehicles? Oh, and making it more difficult to transfer from bus to LRT?

The reason was to build the Green Line. The UofM did not want the LRT to run down Washington, They even proposed the Dinkytown route. U study finds Dinkytown LRT route could jeopardize funding, U continues resisting light rail route That despite study saying Dinkytown Detour fails federal funding test,

So in order to build the Green Line the Metropolitan Council had to compromise. That is what is happening on the Southwest Corridor now on the Kenilworth Corridor of Minneapolis.

[Tom H.]

I guess the good news is that fixing this operational debacle will only require some paint and some signs, and not any jackhammers or cement trucks.