Public Transit News / Current Events (MN only)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
talindsay
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1533
Joined: September 29th, 2012, 10:41 am

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby talindsay » May 4th, 2013, 9:58 pm

If Megabus used one of the parking lots next to Union Depot, then Megabus passengers could use the Depot's bathrooms and other facilities while also making it easier for Megabus's customers to get to/from the stop. Am I missing something on why this isn't the obvious place for them?
Megabus, as a business model, refuses to pay any facility fees - because they don't want to charge customers for them. In theory that's their right, but the problem is that the customers actually *need* facilities, so they use ad-hoc facilities nearby. Megabus was being actively pursued by the City of Chicago and Union Station in Chicago when I was there in 2008; Megabus was loading the buses curbside as quickly as possible so as to not get caught loading by the police. They cheat and steal from the public to keep their prices low for their customers. So no, the City of St. Paul and Megabus aren't likely to come to an amicable agreement about Union Depot, unless St. Paul intends to give them literally free use of the facilities. They refuse to pay *any* kind of rent or loading fee.

Boston may have been able to actually pass a law banning bus services from doing any business in the city unless they pay to use the city's facilities, and since Boston is a huge college town (and college students seem to be one of their main markets), they may have decided it wasn't worth skipping it. But I think anything short of that wouldn't persuade Megabus to operate legally - like I said, they were operating illegally in Chicago - the nation's third-largest city, for gods' sake - five years ago.

ECtransplant
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 711
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 9:56 am

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby ECtransplant » May 4th, 2013, 10:10 pm

Why not let them load and unload at (outside) the Depot for free, at least for the near future? There's not a whole lot going on there right now and, unless I'm mistaken most of the costs are sunk and fixed -- the city already rebuilt the depot.

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5989
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby MNdible » May 4th, 2013, 11:25 pm

Why should Jefferson Lines and Greyhound and Amtrak have to pay to use public facilities when Megabus would get to use them for free?

ECtransplant
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 711
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 9:56 am

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby ECtransplant » May 4th, 2013, 11:51 pm

Because they're not actually using them, just dropping people off outside? I'm not sure the best way to work it out. Just seems like with the abundance of surface lots and excess capacity currently at Union Depot, there should be a way to get them in a better spot than where they are now.

mulad
Moderator
Posts: 2753
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 6:30 pm
Location: Saint Paul
Contact:

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby mulad » May 5th, 2013, 6:02 am

Megabus does have clearance issues -- I'm still not sure whether their double-decker buses would fit under the bike/ped bridge at the entrance to Union Depot's bus terminal at Kellogg & Broadway (probably not). If you want a parking lot near the Union Depot, the lots on the depot property just to the east along Kellogg likely have enough room to move around, but would be frowned upon due to Jefferson and Amtrak paying for use of the depot.

I doubt the lot at 4th & Wacouta is big enough for a bus to maneuver at all. There are actually two lots that ECtransplant traced out. There's a significant grade there, so the two are separated by a retaining wall. At least one of the two lots had also supposedly been sold several months ago to a developer, though I'm not sure if the transaction actually went through or not.

Frustratingly, the new Midway location probably has more cheap food and other items at nearby businesses than either the old Metrodome LRT stop or a place near SPUD. Cub Foods right across the street, Rainbow on the same superblock. Fast-food options at McDonald's, Culver's, Jimmy John's, and a few others. Walmart nearby. It's a suburban-style craphole, but there are places for people to get stuff.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4241
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby FISHMANPET » May 5th, 2013, 12:40 pm

Not quite sure where to put this, but it looks like Megabus has moved from their stop near the Metrodome LRT station over to a parking lot at St. Anthony & Pascal in Saint Paul (just southeast of University & Snelling).
Somewhat related, what's going on at the corner of Snelling and Pascal? That used to be bus storage, right? Is that now a staging area for Central Corridor construction? And by "now" I at least mean when Google Maps last snapped a picture.

User avatar
LRV Op Dude
Union Depot
Posts: 328
Joined: July 7th, 2012, 10:30 am
Contact:

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby LRV Op Dude » May 7th, 2013, 1:53 pm

Megabus to add St. Paul stop at Midway Shopping Center
The double-decker bus will add a permanent new stop on Thursday, May 8 -- its second in the Twin Cities -- at St. Paul's Midway Shopping Center, near Pascal Street and University Avenue.
Blog: Old-Twin Cities Transit New-Twin Cities Transit

You Tube: Old, New

AKA: Bus Driver Dude

Snelbian
Rice Park
Posts: 439
Joined: March 2nd, 2013, 9:03 pm
Location: Mac Grove

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby Snelbian » May 7th, 2013, 2:49 pm

Not quite sure where to put this, but it looks like Megabus has moved from their stop near the Metrodome LRT station over to a parking lot at St. Anthony & Pascal in Saint Paul (just southeast of University & Snelling).
Somewhat related, what's going on at the corner of Snelling and Pascal? That used to be bus storage, right? Is that now a staging area for Central Corridor construction? And by "now" I at least mean when Google Maps last snapped a picture.
It was the staging area, or at least one of them. It's been mostly emptied over the winter, and it's down to some trailers and traffic signs now. The city hasn't decided what will be done with it yet, but there has been some very early discussion of, among other things, using the space along Snelling for bike lanes since the current reconstruction recommendations for Snelling include a lane running from Selby to the other side of 94 and then suddenly terminating two blocks short of the LRT in a very dangerous spot. I expect to see some pressure from neighborhood groups and the district council to redevelop it once LRT construction is completely finished.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby twincitizen » May 7th, 2013, 3:32 pm

Met Council actually owns it, rather than the City, as it's the former home of the Snelling Bus Garage, which was decomissioned around 2001, according to a commemorative pin I saw once while working at MT. It was a streetcar garage before that. I believe there was once a proposal to put a Home Depot there, but that easily could've been a different site nearby, and that was shortly before the LRT was a sure thing (mid-aughts).

While there may be short-term desire for development, the smartest thing to do might be to hold onto it publicly until whoever owns the Rainbow site is ready to redevelop. If the site is sold to a developer now, I'm afraid it would just be another big/medium box type store and won't be compatible with the desired urban form of the area in the future. Saint Paul has big plans for the area to redevelop away from exclusively being big box and parking lots and this parcel should be held until some of that is closer to reality.

Tcmetro
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1768
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 8:02 pm
Location: Chicago (ex-Minneapolitan)

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby Tcmetro » May 10th, 2013, 7:57 am

Metro Transit has received input and finalized changes on the West Suburban service changes. The changes are an attempt to increase local service and reduce and rationalize express service to better fit demands. Service changes will take effect on August 24th.

9 - 2 evening roundtrips will be rerouted to serve Cedar Lake Road.
614 - new route from Ridgedale to Minnetonka Heights Apartments via Plymouth Rd, Minnetonka Bl, and CR 101. Service every hour, weekdays and Saturdays.
615 - Weekday span improved to provide more morning and evening service.
664 - Replaces 665 on 11th Ave, to be operated with articulated buses.
665 - Replaced by 664.
667 - Eliminate 667E, introduce new 667H operating along Minnetonka Bl, 169, 7, and 101, to replace portions of routes 664 and 670.
670 - Operates between Excelsior and Minneapolis via 7, Excelsior Bl, and 169.
671 - Replaces 670 to Tonka Bay, operates along Minnetonka Bl and 169 instead of Plymouth Rd.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/Council-Mee ... bined.aspx

Also, an $8.3 million parking garage with 1,000 spaces has been approved for construction across the street from the existing lot at Noble Parkway and Hwy 610.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/Council-Mee ... 3_132.aspx

UptownSport
Target Field
Posts: 577
Joined: July 23rd, 2012, 12:07 am

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby UptownSport » May 18th, 2013, 10:17 pm

Minnesota House rejects $800 million bonding bill
http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_2 ... l-over-its
-- $50 million for Twin Cities-area bus and rail transit projects.

Tcmetro
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1768
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 8:02 pm
Location: Chicago (ex-Minneapolitan)

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby Tcmetro » June 6th, 2013, 10:01 pm

Metro Council is going to approve a $98 million contract for 184 buses over the next five years. Also, it looks like there will be an option for BRT amenities, which could mean some of the new buses will end up on the Rapid Bus network or Orange Line. The contract will be awarded to Gillig, the supplier of the standard bus fleet for Metro Transit since 1988. I would imagine that these new buses will replace what is left of the high floor bus fleet, save for the 15 articulated high floor buses from 2006.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/Council-Mee ... 3_137.aspx

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4241
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby FISHMANPET » June 6th, 2013, 10:32 pm

Ugh, I wish they would buy New Flyer Xcelsior models, at least for the Hybrids. The New Flyer hybrid is so much nicer than the Gillig model. We've already got Xcelsiors in the shop, as the articulated buses are all New Flyer, so let's just go New Flyer all around.

UptownSport
Target Field
Posts: 577
Joined: July 23rd, 2012, 12:07 am

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby UptownSport » June 10th, 2013, 6:02 am

Star had a transit letter:
LIGHT RAIL

Dense areas need transit the most

I’m shocked that both proposed light-rail lines take pains to avoid the metro’s densest areas. The Southwest proposal bypasses south Minneapolis, jetting past Uptown on a bicycle trail. The Northwest proposal goes straight west to serve a golf course in the middle of a vast park, avoiding north Minneapolis. Buses to these areas are overloaded. Why are we spending hundreds upon hundreds of millions to build rail bypassing most of our citizens?

THEODORE HARMON, Minneapolis


http://www.startribune.com/opinion/lett ... 48761.html

mulad
Moderator
Posts: 2753
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 6:30 pm
Location: Saint Paul
Contact:

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby mulad » June 17th, 2013, 2:05 pm

I'm not sure how widely accepted it is or will be, but the Institute for Transportation and Development Policy has been working on a BRT Standard which ranks bus rapid transit systems at levels of Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Basic. The first version was released last year, and it looks like their 2013 revision came out recently:

http://www.itdp.org/microsites/the-brt-standard-2013/

I haven't gotten very far into it yet, Looks like the highest-ranked system in the U.S. is Cleveland's HealthLine, which got a silver rating.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4241
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby FISHMANPET » June 17th, 2013, 4:10 pm

I think this is why a lot of people hesitate to support BRT. Yes, it can be built to the same standards as LRT, but it becomes so much easier to make concessions when it operates in the same infrastructure that a car does. I have no doubt that if the Green Line was BRT that it would run in mixed traffic through campus. Nobody's really willing to do BRT right, probably because when you do it right there aren't many cost savings compared to rail, and if the price is the same rail is better.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7752
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby mattaudio » June 19th, 2013, 1:21 pm

Metro Council is going to approve a $98 million contract for 184 buses over the next five years. Also, it looks like there will be an option for BRT amenities.....
I'm wondering if the BRT amenity is just the standard Metro Transit curved front they put on the Gilligs (I think the Campus Connector and some MVTA buses have this too)... basically Gillig calls it a BRT front but there's no BRT cowling on top of the bus.

talindsay
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1533
Joined: September 29th, 2012, 10:41 am

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby talindsay » June 19th, 2013, 2:18 pm

I think this is why a lot of people hesitate to support BRT. Yes, it can be built to the same standards as LRT, but it becomes so much easier to make concessions when it operates in the same infrastructure that a car does. I have no doubt that if the Green Line was BRT that it would run in mixed traffic through campus. Nobody's really willing to do BRT right, probably because when you do it right there aren't many cost savings compared to rail, and if the price is the same rail is better.
More to the point, ongoing operations costs are generally higher for bus service of similar characteristics, so full LRT-quality BRT becomes pretty difficult to justify. The big cost advantage comes from the fact that they can make compromises in quality.

User avatar
woofner
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1242
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:04 am

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby woofner » June 19th, 2013, 2:25 pm

Do you think the compromises in quality are a bigger cost advantage than the much lower price of asphalt relative to steel? How about the much lower price of buses relative to LRVs?
"Who rescued whom!"

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7752
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Transit News and Happenings

Postby mattaudio » June 19th, 2013, 2:43 pm

Buses may be cheaper than LRVs but you need more of them for the same capacity and you need to replace them sooner.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Rube Dali and 51 guests