Ward 10 Parking Meter Expansion (moved from Rex26 thread)

[twincitizen]

The City should also consider parking meters around this area. Parking meters down at LynLake don't extend north of the Greenway and are routinely full. The rates aren't that expensive, and have time-limits of 2 hours during the day and 4 at night.

By installing parking meters, it would free up a lot of short-term parking for the burgeoning business node here. Residents currently parking on Lyndale would have to move to side streets or just not have cars, either of which are perfectly acceptable, given the location.

[Chef]

Some of the side streets off of Lyndale are fully parked in by 9pm, I'm not sure about that block in particular but parking on Garfield and Harriet is tough at times. I live at 22nd and Garfield and usually don't get off work until late, I usually have to park 2 to 3 blocks from my apartment (which I can live with). The farthest I have had to go was 26th and Pillsbury (I would move if it was a regular occurrence). If the people who live on Lyndale can't park on Lyndale it will probably push the surrounding streets above capacity.

While it is true that many Minnesotans whine about parking being bad if they have to walk more than 20 feet it is also true that there are certain parts of the city that are at capacity for overnight street parking. Generally they are areas that have a lot of 1920s apartment buildings rather than single family houses. I'm not sure that meters on Lyndale are a good idea, that said, there is probably enough parking capacity before 9pm, especially on the Aldrich side, to accommodate French Meadow parking without them building a new lot. Most of their customers who park there will be gone before the peak of the overnight residential parking.

[twincitizen]

Yes, parking is tight, but I guarantee you it's nowhere near 100%. As you mentioned, you just have to go further away sometimes.

I believe there is a whole "shadow market", if you will, of people who essentially live car free, but continue to own one because it isn't that difficult or expensive. They could easily live without a car, use HourCar, or share one with a roommate/neighbor/significant other, but just haven't been pushed hard enough to actually get rid of the dang thing.

If we tightened up the available "free" on-street parking just a little bit, a few percent even, how many of those folks would finally make the leap?

Keeping parking available for neighborhood businesses and generating meter revenue seems like it should be a higher priority than "free" on street parking for residents. If people want guaranteed parking close to their apartments, they should've thought of that before signing the lease and rented somewhere else. I own a car...I sure as heck wouldn't move somewhere without some off-street parking.

[mamundsen]

Something that confuses me and I wonder if they talked about it last night... If they are building the parking lot to meet requirements for their expansion. What happens when they find a developer to change this "temporary" lot into the 3 story apartments? Where does the next parking solution come from?

[woofner]

the entire neighborhood still preferred they seek a waiver on parking requirements from the city, and that was voted on unanimously as the neighborhood's preference.

Wow, Whittier has changed for the better since I moved away 5 years ago. On the other hand, this is on Lyndale rather than Nicollet.

I believe there is a whole "shadow market", if you will, of people who essentially live car free, but continue to own one because it isn't that difficult or expensive. They could easily live without a car, use HourCar, or share one with a roommate/neighbor/significant other, but just haven't been pushed hard enough to actually get rid of the dang thing.

I also believe in the shadow market, so I'd like to see the city require a permit to park on the street anywhere. Even if the annual fee were low, this would bring in enough revenue to issue bonds that could fund the installation of temporary permit machines at all un-metered business districts. Eventually annual fees should be raised to fund a transponder-based system that would charge users according to the length of time they're parked and the demand of the area, and also for a further roll-out of meters.

Or maybe after they build a streetcar on Nicollet everyone will magically quit driving.

[Nathan]

While it is true that many Minnesotans whine about parking being bad if they have to walk more than 20 feet it is also true that there are certain parts of the city that are at capacity for overnight street parking. Generally they are areas that have a lot of 1920s apartment buildings rather than single family houses. I'm not sure that meters on Lyndale are a good idea, that said, there is probably enough parking capacity before 9pm, especially on the Aldrich side, to accommodate French Meadow parking without them building a new lot. Most of their customers who park there will be gone before the peak of the overnight residential parking.

Most meters would be not running after 10 (maybe 8PM here) and start again at 8, so those people on Lyndale could still feasibly park on Lyndale over night...

[RailBaronYarr]

the entire neighborhood still preferred they seek a waiver on parking requirements from the city, and that was voted on unanimously as the neighborhood's preference.

Wow, Whittier has changed for the better since I moved away 5 years ago. On the other hand, this is on Lyndale rather than Nicollet.

I believe there is a whole "shadow market", if you will, of people who essentially live car free, but continue to own one because it isn't that difficult or expensive. They could easily live without a car, use HourCar, or share one with a roommate/neighbor/significant other, but just haven't been pushed hard enough to actually get rid of the dang thing.

I also believe in the shadow market, so I'd like to see the city require a permit to park on the street anywhere. Even if the annual fee were low, this would bring in enough revenue to issue bonds that could fund the installation of temporary permit machines at all un-metered business districts. Eventually annual fees should be raised to fund a transponder-based system that would charge users according to the length of time they're parked and the demand of the area, and also for a further roll-out of meters.

Or maybe after they build a streetcar on Nicollet everyone will magically quit driving.

There should be nothing wrong with people owning a car but barely using it, as long as they're willing to pay the true cost of ownership for it, including money to support roads/highways they will likely use nearly exclusively (infrequent but long trips to places bikes/transit can't take them), pay for parking, or pay for the opportunity cost of the land usage they store it on if private (through a higher land-tax system that makes it economically more feasible to build on the area not park a car).

You bring up some good options of incremental, long-term funding that pays for itself regarding street parking. Could also throw in that if this person was taking part in a car-share organization maybe they could be exempt (total utilization of the car would be nearly maximized with minimal space required for vehicles).

[MNdible]

I love your ideas for making large parts of Uptown unappealing for anybody that needs to own a car!

[PhilmerPhil]

Why is it just fine to continue building places that are unappealing for anyone that doesn't want to own a car, but when we try to revert places back to who they were originally built for (people) it becomes an issue for you?

[MNdible]

Why is it just fine to continue building places that are unappealing for anyone that doesn't want to own a car, but when we try to revert places back to who they were originally built for (people) it becomes an issue for you?

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at there, besides poking at the open sore that I don't always fall lock-step into the general thinking about cars and parking found on the forum.

To be crystal clear, I think that building a parking lot on this site is a really really bad idea and I hope the city doesn't let them do it.

I also don't think that residents of these apartments are entitled to park right in front of their building, and I think that Resident Permit Parking is a bad idea. I'm not necessarily opposed to parking meters on Lyndale, particularly if it's as part of a well-thought out idea about providing transitory parking for Lyndale Avenue businesses.

That said, I think that some of the master plans tossed about in this thread to wean the unenlightened residents of the Wedge and Whittier away from their sad, sorry dependencies on cars smack of... arrogance? Probably not that, exactly.

Thanks for the shout out, though!

[VAStationDude]

I think the idea is to encourage turn over. Letting a car sit for days on end leaves less parking for residents who commute to the suburbs and visitors to the neighborhood. How exactly policy makers accomplish such a goal I do not know. Perhaps establish two hour parking limits Monday to Friday from 8am to 5pm on Lyndale and perpendicular streets within two blocks. Extending those parking limits to Aldrich might also be smart

[RailBaronYarr]

Why is it just fine to continue building places that are unappealing for anyone that doesn't want to own a car, but when we try to revert places back to who they were originally built for (people) it becomes an issue for you?

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at there, besides poking at the open sore that I don't always fall lock-step into the general thinking about cars and parking found on the forum.

To be crystal clear, I think that building a parking lot on this site is a really really bad idea and I hope the city doesn't let them do it.

I also don't think that residents of these apartments are entitled to park right in front of their building, and I think that Resident Permit Parking is a bad idea. I'm not necessarily opposed to parking meters on Lyndale, particularly if it's as part of a well-thought out idea about providing transitory parking for Lyndale Avenue businesses.

That said, I think that some of the master plans tossed about in this thread to wean the unenlightened residents of the Wedge and Whittier away from their sad, sorry dependencies on cars smack of... arrogance? Probably not that, exactly.

Thanks for the shout out, though!

I'm confused why my response was seen as arrogant or forcefully weaning people off their cars? I put forward a market-based approach to parking to help the local government afford the services they provide for cars as well as make the area more livable for pedestrians/bikers, not remove all cars. Places shouldn't be designed for no cars, but they shouldn't be designed around the car being the only way people get to and fro, either.