Gold Line BRT (Gateway Corridor)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Tcmetro
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby Tcmetro » January 29th, 2014, 8:09 pm

Open house next week,

Thursday, February 6, 2014
5 – 7 pm
Globe University
8147 Globe Drive Woodbury, MN 55125

http://www.thegatewaycorridor.com/docum ... 0House.pdf

twincitizen
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby twincitizen » January 29th, 2014, 8:24 pm

The Gateway Corridor project is considering two route alignments (named D1 and D2) for Bus Rapid
Transit (BRT) or Light Rail Transit (LRT) through Oakdale, Lake Elmo, and Woodbury.
http://finance-commerce.com/transit/fil ... d-D2-2.jpg

Tcmetro
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby Tcmetro » February 6th, 2014, 10:16 pm

Some interesting stuff to be discussed at Monday night's CAC meeting:

http://www.thegatewaycorridor.com/docum ... Agenda.pdf

Tcmetro
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby Tcmetro » March 8th, 2014, 9:38 am

The meeting summary for the CAC meeting and the presentation for the PAC are now up.

Here's a quote from the CAC meeting about the D1/D2 (Woodbury/Lake Elmo) options:
There really isn’t a firm proposal of where the stations and route should go east of 494/694.
Woodbury has raised traffic concerns and recently stakeholders have asked if the project
should cross I-94 at all. Metro Transit was in the process of acquiring land for a park and ride at
Manning Avenue in Woodbury. Woodbury has asked Metro Transit to postpone their plans to
build a park and ride at Manning Avenue so further study of an optimal location can be
evaluated relative to the Gateway project. Every park and ride in Woodbury is over capacity.

Tabitha DeRango stated that one reason that people in St. Paul are interested and are buying
into the Gateway Corridor is so that they can reach jobs in Woodbury. If the route to Woodbury
does not go forward and there won’t be the same access to jobs that is concerning. Beth Bartz
acknowledged that there are plans to expand the Oaks Business Park and Lake Elmo is
concentrating new development along I-94. However, few of these developments exist today.
Tabitha noted that it is difficult to know what kinds of jobs and incomes would be located in the
not-yet-existent development. People would need to use the system every day to get to work; a
walkway across the freeway to jobs in Woodbury does not sound appealing, especially in the
winter. Perhaps shuttles could operate between the stations and the bigger destinations.
This really starts to make it sound as if Lake Elmo may become the preferred option. I think that this would be a mistake. Woodbury has all the retail jobs as well as a lot more residential areas which will attract riders. Lake Elmo is comparatively empty.

The engineering problem was brought up as well. There are three parts of the corridor where there isn't enough room for an at-grade transitway and the freeway. These are at Earl St, Etna St, and the Landfall area. Elevated guideways are being looked into, as well as mixed-traffic operations for the BRT. MnDot also prefers a 20-foot buffer zone between the freeway and the transitway; however, this isn't really an option unless a tunnel or viaduct is built.

http://thegatewaycorridor.com/documents ... Packet.pdf
http://thegatewaycorridor.com/documents ... Packet.pdf

--

The scoping for DEIS is underway. Comments will be accepted until April 16th.

Scoping Meetings

Formal public Scoping meetings are
scheduled for the following dates and
locations:

Scoping Open House #1
Monday, March 24, 4:30-6:30 PM
Guardian Angels Church
8260 4th Street N, Oakdale, MN 55128

Scoping Open House #2
Tuesday, March 25, 4:30-6:30 PM
Conway Recreation Center
2090 Conway Avenue, Saint Paul, MN 55119

Policy Advisory Committee Meeting
Thursday, April 10, 2:00 PM
Woodbury City Hall
8301 Valley Creek Rd, Woodbury, MN 55125

The PAC will be hearing comments and
accepting comments at their April 10th
Meeting.

http://thegatewaycorridor.com/documents ... 20Book.pdf
http://thegatewaycorridor.com/documents ... Poster.pdf

mattaudio
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby mattaudio » March 8th, 2014, 12:29 pm

Lake Elmo does seem like a natural fit given the trajectory of regional transit planning...
SWLRT goes to a suburb with lots of jobs and is fully developed.
Bottineau goes to a suburb with farm fields and office parks
Gateway to Lake Elmo would go to a town that has outright rejected becoming a suburb.

twincitizen
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby twincitizen » March 25th, 2014, 4:53 pm

^Great (and terrifyingly sad) observation. I honestly heard (a while ago) that they might go with the Lake Elmo route as a purely political move, because it would get one more set of local officials and business leaders on board, making the project that much more likely to happen. Woodbury better push hard. Radio Drive is a key station and could maybe even see a N-S local bus route someday. Let us pray.

Last open house opportunity tonight. Submit your comments before the April 10 PAC meeting! I might actually attend that.

David Greene
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby David Greene » March 25th, 2014, 9:33 pm

^Great (and terrifyingly sad) observation. I honestly heard (a while ago) that they might go with the Lake Elmo route as a purely political move, because it would get one more set of local officials and business leaders on board, making the project that much more likely to happen. Woodbury better push hard. Radio Drive is a key station and could maybe even see a N-S local bus route someday. Let us pray.
It's depressing to see what this project's become. Moving away from Woodbury would kill the only somewhat legitimate reason for this project's existence.

mulad
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby mulad » April 4th, 2014, 5:51 pm

New newsletter

Scoping period ends on April 16th. There is still one upcoming public meeting:

Policy Advisory Committee Meeting
Thursday, April 10, 2:00 PM
Woodbury City Hall
8301 Valley Creek Rd, Woodbury, MN 55125

----

I have to say, I really think this "corridor" ought to turn south around the point where it enters Woodbury. For city-to-city commutes, the top destination for Woodbury residents is Woodbury (though only around 10% of the working population, I think). For city-to-ZCTA commutes, the top destinations are: the 3M campus, downtown St. Paul, and downtown Minneapolis, in that order. The Gateway corridor as it is currently being pursued does nothing for within-city commutes, and doesn't help much for commutes to 3M. I don't know if parking is free there or not, but there is a lot of it. Once you've driven up to the I-94 corridor, are you likely to stop at a park-and-ride and then get on a bus just to go a few miles?

acs
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby acs » May 30th, 2014, 9:44 am

Anyone else notice this?

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... fast-track

Specifically this part:
The White House's recent decision also effectively moves the Gateway Corridor ahead of a proposed west metro project, the Bottineau Transitway, which would connect Minneapolis to the northwest suburbs.
SWLRT was also put on the fast-track. Thoughts?

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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby LRV Op Dude » May 30th, 2014, 10:41 am

Anyone else notice this?

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... fast-track

Specifically this part:
The White House's recent decision also effectively moves the Gateway Corridor ahead of a proposed west metro project, the Bottineau Transitway, which would connect Minneapolis to the northwest suburbs.
SWLRT was also put on the fast-track. Thoughts?
I hope that Bottineau Corridor goes first.
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ECtransplant
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby ECtransplant » May 31st, 2014, 12:36 pm

Both are suburban commuter lines, just like what Southwest turned into. I wish Midtown would go before both

EOst
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby EOst » May 31st, 2014, 7:12 pm

Both are suburban commuter lines, just like what Southwest turned into. I wish Midtown would go before both
Minneapolis proper has less than 10% of the state's population; even with St. Paul it's less than 20%. How do you justify a state contribution to transit systems that only benefit one of those two, if he's from Duluth or Mankato?

ECtransplant
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby ECtransplant » May 31st, 2014, 7:51 pm

How do you justify federal contributions to a region that makes up about 1% of the country?

at40man
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby at40man » May 31st, 2014, 10:39 pm

doesn't help much for commutes to 3M. I don't know if parking is free there or not, but there is a lot of it. Once you've driven up to the I-94 corridor, are you likely to stop at a park-and-ride and then get on a bus just to go a few miles?
Most parking at 3M is free, with the exception being the ramps. Unless you arrive early though, you have quite a hike from the parking lots into the main "Quad" -- arrive much after 8:30 AM and you are stuck parking in an overflow lot and either walking or calling a shuttle to pick you up. Lots and lots of people from Woodbury and downtown St Paul work at 3M. In order for this to be successful, the stop should come as close as possible to the Quad. I'd love to see the LRT follow Innovation Boulevard through the heart of the campus because it also puts the rest of the buildings on the campus within walking distance of the line.

Realisitically,I don't see them ripping up Innovation Blvd to do this, though. It is the only roadway that I know of in Minnesota in which you can do the "Michigan Left Turn".

EOst
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby EOst » June 1st, 2014, 10:48 am

How do you justify federal contributions to a region that makes up about 1% of the country?
According to the Republicans in Congress, mostly, you can't.

Within the bounds of what's politically possible, these are good projects. If they aren't as good as they' d be in magical fairy world where we can make everything perfect, that's the way it is.

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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby ECtransplant » June 1st, 2014, 11:01 am

These are good projects if the goal is to make commuting from the suburbs easier. If the goal is to combat sprawl, decrease car use, make our transportation infrastructure more sustainable, and make the region competitive nationally and internationally, then we need to improve the core cities first. Things like the Midtown corridor, completing all of the aBRT routes, and a Nicollet transit tunnel should be a higher priority.

Tcmetro
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby Tcmetro » June 11th, 2014, 4:38 pm

DEIS update on page 55: http://www.thegatewaycorridor.com/docum ... Packet.pdf

The TAC should be making it's recommendation on the LPA at the mid-July meeting, and after input from the other committees, the Commission, and the RRA's, it will make its way to the Met Council who will amend it into the regional transportation policy plan sometime in the fall or winter. Then I suppose this line can enter preliminary engineering.

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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby David Greene » June 11th, 2014, 8:57 pm

These are good projects if the goal is to make commuting from the suburbs easier. If the goal is to combat sprawl, decrease car use, make our transportation infrastructure more sustainable, and make the region competitive nationally and internationally, then we need to improve the core cities first. Things like the Midtown corridor, completing all of the aBRT routes, and a Nicollet transit tunnel should be a higher priority.
I understand what you're saying, even sympathize with it, but the reality is that people will continue to live in the suburbs for a very long time. Better to concentrate that growth along transit corridors than allow it to continue in an unordered pattern that will require even more roads, sewers and freeways that something more concentrated along corridors. If these suburban-serving transitways can concentrate more development in even mildly dense corridors, they're a win.

twincitizen
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby twincitizen » July 8th, 2014, 11:14 am

I know I heard something about this somewhere, but I don't think we noted it in the thread. The feds have asked that the "managed lane" option be brought back for further study. I would agree that it was discarded too early in the process, since the Gateway Commission leaders clearly had their hearts set on an exclusive guideway for BRT. The thing is, congestion isn't really that bad on 94 between Woodbury and downtown St. Paul. A managed (HOV/Toll) lane is probably in the cards anyways. We should be studying combining the two projects and winding up with something like the Orange Line on 35W. I'm not sure this part of the region necessarily deserves or demands an exclusive guideway when an HOV lane could probably provide very similar travel times (if not better in some portions). I may have heard that the Met Council sort of agrees with the feds. I would imagine that MNDOT might feel the same way: There's little sense in building an exclusive guideway on/above the frontage road if we're doing an HOV lane in the corridor anyways. Rail enthusiasts and transit purists will cry foul, but this was never going to be rail. You'd have to make a really strong case that HOV lane Freeway BRT would draw significantly fewer passengers than the exclusive guideway, especially if the travel times are comparable. This line isn't going to draw (m)any walk up riders...it was always pure park & ride to 3M or downtown service, regardless of guideway. Also keep in mind that the exclusive guideway wouldn't even be 100% exclusive...at times it would have run on the frontage road (Hudson Rd) shoulders and such. Getting HOV lanes on the freeway is the better move for the region as a whole, and could very well provide better transit. I really don't see it as a downgrade from a partially-exclusive guideway (assuming a grade-separated exclusive guideway into Union Depot is part of either deal). Furthermore, much of the money to build the managed lanes would come from highway dollars, with transit dollars only paying for buses, stations, and transit-specific improvements. It would presumably take much less CTIB money than the $420MM needed for the guideway. (EDIT: $590MM for the entire managed lane project, presumably much of that being road money)

http://www.woodburybulletin.com/content ... naged-lane (Paywall)

In lesser news, the Manning Avenue Park & Ride has been put on hold until the Gateway alignment is sorted out.

EDIT: Here's the ranking from the AA http://thegatewaycorridor.com/documents ... iators.pdf
Managed lane scored 2nd, just behind BRT Guideway along 94/Hudson Rd. 4,600 riders for managed lane, 5,400 for BRT Guideway.

Tcmetro
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Re: Gateway Corridor

Postby Tcmetro » July 18th, 2014, 12:08 pm

LPA meeting soon:
Thursday, August 7, 2014, 6 p.m.
Conway Recreation Center
2090 Conway Avenue, Saint Paul, MN 55119
http://thegatewaycorridor.com/documents ... 0Flyer.pdf


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