Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

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DanPatchToget
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby DanPatchToget » July 11th, 2016, 3:32 pm

This pisses me off -- I'm so sick and tired of the political "gridlock" (more like cock block) in this region and nationally halting progress, particularly with transit. We really are falling way behind the rest of our growing, progressive "peer" cities. I mean $50-something BILLION dedicated to mass transit in Seattle?! Why is it this hard to procure the $135 million here to make the next logical expansion in our regional rail network.
-a lot of rural Minnesota doesn't see the benefits of public transportation, particularly in the Twin Cities region because they argue why their money should go to something that they may never use
-a loud opposition that is good at silencing those who support public transit
-the state GOP and other groups are good at making myths and lies look like facts about public transit
-the suburban area surrounding the Twin Cities has many conservatives who don't use public transit, nor are interested in using public transit or having it near them
-strong NIMBYism

I don't know what its like in Seattle, Denver, etc. but that is the situation here.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby HiawathaGuy » July 12th, 2016, 8:23 am

There are a lot of generalizations going on over the past few comments.
First, it's important to remember that we have a very productive Metropolitan Council, that whether you believe it or not, has afforded the State a means forward that many other similar-sized metro areas do not have. Should you be frustrated? ABSOLUTELY! But you're preaching to the choir here - especially when commenting on a Star Tribune article. The GOP at the State level is simply following the National mantra - Obstruction. It's something they've found works incredibly well, to convince voters that they're "looking out for their best interests", all while being able to point the finger at Dems and say "It's all their fault." Thankfully, it seems the writing is on the wall with this, as this nonsense is losing steam. If voter turnout is high this fall for Dems, which is expected, and anemic for the GOP - there will be a very large blood bath. People are sick of hearing words and not seeing action. The same goes for Minnesota. There is strong support for increased spending on roads/bridges/transit statewide. Yet the GOP continues to stonewall any progress, specifically on transit. If history is any indication, they will not fare well this fall, as the good people of MN tend to not like people obstructing progress.

It's also important to remember that there is opposition to transit in Denver & Seattle, and elsewhere - they've just done a better job with creating an actionable timeline for the increased spending, and voters have approved it. We haven't had that option here, because our system is set up differently. But that doesn't mean we are behind the curve. Plenty of other peer cities don't have the successes and progress we're making. Detroit/Milwaukee/KC/St Louis/Cleveland/Cincinnati/Nashville/Charlotte, etc. None of them seems to be as strong as we are. And Denver and Seattle have natural attributes to attract millennials more than transit does. And if you haven't been to Seattle - I'm not sure I'd agree that their system is 'better' than ours. Portland I would say is better, for the size of their metro. Denver's system, while impressive in coverage and scope, is not something I'd want to see emulated here. I think our planned system is far more beneficial long-term.

Anyhow, my point - it's important to understand all the factors into things. If you're pissed about the GOP blocking transit progress, get involved with groups advocating change. Make sure each and every one of your like-minded friends turn out to vote this fall. That's the only way we're going to change the status quo.

amiller92
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby amiller92 » July 12th, 2016, 8:46 am

-a lot of rural Minnesota doesn't see the benefits of public transportation, particularly in the Twin Cities region because they argue why their money should go to something that they may never use
They probably want to get off that pretty darn quick unless they want the opposite response when they next want the state to pay for their roads. Also, they "use" it when they enjoy the benefits of sharing a state with a strong economic engine located in the metro.

MNdible
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby MNdible » July 12th, 2016, 10:44 am

Did you know that Dallas is only Texas's third largest city and they still have over 90 miles of LRT? Why can't we be more like Dallas?

mattaudio
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » July 12th, 2016, 11:41 am

Did you know MetroTransit LRT has 3,275 daily boardings per mile, and DART LRT has only 1,164 daily boardings per mile?

While I'd love to have 90 miles of (quality) LRT in the metro, I'm not sure Dallas is a model to follow.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby FISHMANPET » July 12th, 2016, 11:47 am

Isn't our Metro Transit the most heavily used surface running rail system in the country, and higher performing than some underground systems?

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Tiller
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Tiller » July 12th, 2016, 11:49 am

But what portion of that is because of differences in development patterns and other non-transit circumstances between here vs. Dallas, and what portion of that is them having a poorly designed system (if it is poorly designed, I don't know much about it)? Having Dallas' mileage here wouldn't necessitate having Dallas' ridership per mile.

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby LakeCharles » July 12th, 2016, 11:58 am

Wasn't MNdible kidding about the Dallas thing?

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby MNdible » July 12th, 2016, 12:07 pm

Indeed I was. Just thought it was a ridiculous comparison for the article to be making.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby min-chi-cbus » July 12th, 2016, 8:03 pm

I don't necessarily envy these other cities' ridership per mile, but I definitely envy their appetite for investments in sustainable forms of mass transit. If we finished what we started and built SW, Bottineau, and linked St. Paul with the airport/MOA (Riverview), we would have a pretty efficient and comprehensive foundation of a rail network that could rival our rivals.

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Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Qhaberl » July 22nd, 2016, 8:15 am

Found this article. I am confused, I thought that in order to gain the final go-ahead from the Feds we needed to secure the 150 million from the state.

http://finance-commerce.com/2016/07/sou ... from-feds/

I'm fortunately the article was locked. Maybe one of you has more information.


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LRV Op Dude
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby LRV Op Dude » July 22nd, 2016, 9:36 am

Found this article. I am confused, I thought that in order to gain the final go-ahead from the Feds we needed to secure the 150 million from the state.

http://finance-commerce.com/2016/07/sou ... from-feds/

I'm fortunately the article was locked. Maybe one of you has more information.


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Try yhis link

http://m.startribune.com/southwest-lrt- ... 387876742/
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Tcmetro
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » July 22nd, 2016, 9:46 am

Yes, it's saying that the State needs to come up with their 10% share. Article mentions that the County or CTIB could come up with more money, but I don't know how feasible that is.

talindsay
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby talindsay » July 22nd, 2016, 10:43 am

The FFGA - Full Funding Grant Agreement - can't be signed until local funds are completely sorted. This step - the approval of the final environmental paperwork - preceded the FFGA by several months for the Central Corridor.

I haven't read anything in any law that would require the legislature to act in any meaningful way for Hennepin County or the CTIB to just cover the final 10%. The laws establishing the CTIB didn't explicitly lay out the funding split or limit the maximum CTIB contribution to 30%, and the Met Council has continually demonstrated that it has the power to plug really any funding hole. Hennepin County can't raise taxes without the state's permission, but spending taxes they've collected on this should be allowed. I wonder if it's really that they want to keep this in limbo in hopes of pressuring the state to come up with some sort of better, more permanent solution than just coming up with $150m out of somebody else's budget. Of course, there's all sorts of established procedures and precedents that indicate it's the state's share, and perhaps some piece of fund-enabling legislation in the past accidentally slipped in some requirement that on this project the state has to directly allocate the 10%, but it seems kind of unlikely.

kirby96
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby kirby96 » July 22nd, 2016, 11:13 am

I wonder if it's really that they want to keep this in limbo in hopes of pressuring the state to come up with some sort of better, more permanent solution than just coming up with $150m out of somebody else's budget.
While I have no idea if that's actually true, I think that is highly likely because frankly that seems to be easily the best (only) position to take at this point. The only benefit to laying out a specific scenario that gets the funding for SWLRT without the state's contribution is to assuage the current worries of pro-SWLRT folks who fear that the project might not get built. On the flip side, there are obviously huge cons to coming out and saying, "if state funding dries up, we'll simply proceed with plan B."

It'd be sorta like stepping into a car dealership and telling them how much you could spend before bothering to tell them what kind of car you're looking for.

intercomnut
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby intercomnut » July 22nd, 2016, 11:54 am

Hennepin County can't raise taxes without the state's permission, but spending taxes they've collected on this should be allowed.
The problem is that the county would have to sell more bonds than the state currently allows it to. That was the provision that Daudt agreed to and then withheld from the final bill.

talindsay
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby talindsay » July 22nd, 2016, 2:40 pm

Ah, the county is currently that close on their bond authority? I apparently missed that detail.

LakeCharles
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby LakeCharles » August 15th, 2016, 7:29 am

MinnPost article making the case for SWLRT on a job distribution basis:

https://www.minnpost.com/community-voic ... nd-metro-j

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Nathan
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Nathan » August 15th, 2016, 10:42 am

MinnPost article making the case for SWLRT on a job distribution basis:

https://www.minnpost.com/community-voic ... nd-metro-j
And in the case of jobs proves Bottineau going to Brooklyn Park is totally worthless?

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mister.shoes
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby mister.shoes » August 15th, 2016, 10:49 am

And makes a 394-adjacent line to the West End (and eventually, beyond) look pretty appealing.
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