Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

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grant1simons2
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby grant1simons2 » September 16th, 2015, 8:05 pm

Donna Azarian is Eden Prairies Constance Pepin. She's absolutely crazy and many people in the city disagree with her views. It's just the crowd that showed up are the most negative because the supporters are tired of the hearings by now.

David Greene
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » September 16th, 2015, 8:49 pm

Still, it's appalling that *anyone* applauded her remarks.

I don't mean to call out EP alone. This sickness exists everywhere. One need only attend hearings on transit to witness many such statements from all over the metro, from all walks of white life.

trigonalmayhem

Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby trigonalmayhem » September 17th, 2015, 6:58 am

I love spending money to bring rail transit to a place that doesn't want it and won't even stop being an opt out or running competing bus lines.

EOst
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby EOst » September 17th, 2015, 8:50 am

Jesus Christ dude, give it a rest. Everyone here knows your opinion.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 17th, 2015, 9:32 am

Jesus Christ dude, give it a rest. Everyone here knows your opinion.
-1

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby FISHMANPET » September 17th, 2015, 9:33 am

As soon as David stops posting his nonsense then we can start worrying about stopping someone who's at least making a little bit of sense.

MNdible
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby MNdible » September 17th, 2015, 9:39 am

You may be letting the fact that you agree with one and not the other cloud your judgement on this.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby FISHMANPET » September 17th, 2015, 9:42 am

There's basically 3 camps: David Greene, disagrees with David Greene, and "OH MY GOD WILL YOU ALL JUST SHUT UP." There may be commonalities of opinion we all share with David Greene, but on the whole, he's an outlier that's very often unable or unwilling to defend his, quite frankly, bizarre views (I still don't know why a bus connection at Royalston is drastically better than a bus connection at one of the existing Downtown stations, for example).

So yes I agree with trig and I don't agree with David, but, like, does anyone agree with David?

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby LakeCharles » September 17th, 2015, 9:46 am

You are making this really personal. There are sometimes I disagree with David, sometimes I agree. Sometimes I disagree with MNdible, sometimes I agree. Sometimes I disagree with you, sometimes I agree. It's all okay. I do not think David is the crazy outlier you make him out to be.

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby VAStationDude » September 17th, 2015, 9:46 am

The memory of half baked line that hasn't been a possibility for half a decade will live on in the hearts'of repetitive wankers forever!

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 17th, 2015, 9:53 am

The memory of half baked line that hasn't been a possibility for half a decade will live on in the hearts'of repetitive wankers forever!
Well put.
Last edited by HiawathaGuy on September 17th, 2015, 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 17th, 2015, 9:54 am

You are making this really personal. There are sometimes I disagree with David, sometimes I agree. Sometimes I disagree with MNdible, sometimes I agree. Sometimes I disagree with you, sometimes I agree. It's all okay. I do not think David is the crazy outlier you make him out to be.
I couldn't agree more. I don't understand why people on a forum about construction and transit projects need to get so personal. It makes this site somewhat pretentious and annoying at times.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby FISHMANPET » September 17th, 2015, 9:59 am

For the record I prefer 3A over 3C but David makes some really bizarre arguments in favor of it.

I mean, it's kind of terrible, that in a vacuum you look at this forum or even this thread specifically, and you'd think we've got a wide spectrum of views, but then you compare us to the population at large and we're all basically identical compared to everyone else. So we're sitting here fighting at the margins of the margins with each other.

But a lot of us are engaged citizens and at the end of the day we have the power to change and influence these things. And part of that is going to be winning hearts and minds, and part of that is going to be convincing people that we're right. So I'd prefer that our arguments not be monumentally bad when we make them. I'd like them to be 100% airtight perfect so that we're ready to refute any wrong claim with charts and graphs and statistics and data and stories and anecdotes and etc.

So I don't know, maybe I'm unique in wanting that. But every time I'm arguing/debating, I'm not just trying to "win," I'm trying to make sure my position is as solid as possible. I am constantly re-examine my views and assumptions and conclusions to make sure they're still as rock solid as possible. Part of that reexamination comes from having my views challenged. "But the Northside won't you just trust meeeeeeeeeee" is not a very good challenge. I think we can do better. I think David can do better.

In the end we all want the same thing, let's make sure we're able to get there.

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Archiapolis » September 17th, 2015, 11:19 am

For the record I prefer 3A over 3C but David makes some really bizarre arguments in favor of it.

I mean, it's kind of terrible, that in a vacuum you look at this forum or even this thread specifically, and you'd think we've got a wide spectrum of views, but then you compare us to the population at large and we're all basically identical compared to everyone else. So we're sitting here fighting at the margins of the margins with each other.

But a lot of us are engaged citizens and at the end of the day we have the power to change and influence these things. And part of that is going to be winning hearts and minds, and part of that is going to be convincing people that we're right. So I'd prefer that our arguments not be monumentally bad when we make them. I'd like them to be 100% airtight perfect so that we're ready to refute any wrong claim with charts and graphs and statistics and data and stories and anecdotes and etc.

So I don't know, maybe I'm unique in wanting that. But every time I'm arguing/debating, I'm not just trying to "win," I'm trying to make sure my position is as solid as possible. I am constantly re-examine my views and assumptions and conclusions to make sure they're still as rock solid as possible. Part of that reexamination comes from having my views challenged. "But the Northside won't you just trust meeeeeeeeeee" is not a very good challenge. I think we can do better. I think David can do better.

In the end we all want the same thing, let's make sure we're able to get there.
Well said.

David Greene
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » September 17th, 2015, 1:27 pm

So I'd prefer that our arguments not be monumentally bad when we make them. I'd like them to be 100% airtight perfect so that we're ready to refute any wrong claim with charts and graphs and statistics and data and stories and anecdotes and etc.
You got the second part right. The world does not care about charts and graphs and statistics and data.

And at least consider the *possibility* (it's really, really remote possibility, I know) that I also constantly reevaluate my beliefs.

That's all I'll say on this.

trigonalmayhem

Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby trigonalmayhem » September 17th, 2015, 3:30 pm

Real question: is your membership on the community advisory committee contingent on not rocking the boat and defending every bad decision made or do you really do the mental gymnastics to come up with these convoluted arguments to support these things on your own? Do they just want a bunch of yes men to disseminate justification for their decisions or actually want real input on how to do things better? I honestly have no idea how this committee is staffed so I'm legitimately curious. It just feels like you must be beholden to someone because you can seem like a pretty reasonable guy sometimes and I have no idea how you arrive at some of these arguments.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 17th, 2015, 3:33 pm

Real question: is your membership on the community advisory committee contingent on not rocking the boat and defending every bad decision made or do you really do the mental gymnastics to come up with these convoluted arguments to support these things on your own? Do they just want a bunch of yes men to disseminate justification for their decisions or actually want real input on how to do things better? I honestly have no idea how this committee is staffed so I'm legitimately curious. It just feels like you must be beholden to someone because you can seem like a pretty reasonable guy sometimes and I have no idea how you arrive at some of these arguments.
For the love of all things holy.
Please. Stop.

Instead of attacking people on the board, use your resources - hell, Google it. Get on a CAC and add your voice.
Complaining about projects to a bunch of similar-minded transit enthusiasts won't change your perceptions of Regional Transit projects.

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Tiller
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Tiller » September 17th, 2015, 5:21 pm

You guys should use some of this passion to campaign for Bernie Sanders, because all this passion in one place is turning into a clusterfuck. He's ahead in Iowa guis pls don't tear our family apart
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RailBaronYarr
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby RailBaronYarr » September 17th, 2015, 7:22 pm

The world does not care about charts and graphs and statistics and data.
This is unfortunate, IMO. Most ill-informed, racist, or otherwise frustrating viewpoints rely on anecdotes or stories or personal beliefs ingrained from parents or even religion. And they often can only be refuted in the general sense with real information (supported by the good kind of anecdotes and stories!).

Re: SWLRT, the Pedestrian Advisory Committee saw some station plans for Van White, Penn, and West Lake stations today (the latter is actually part of the larger West Lake area long-range improvements). I didn't grab any pictures, but if I get a hold of electronic copies and have permission to share them, I'll do so. Things actually look pretty good for Van White and I'm impressed with some of the consultant recommendations at WL.

David Greene
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » September 17th, 2015, 8:28 pm

The world does not care about charts and graphs and statistics and data.
This is unfortunate, IMO. Most ill-informed, racist, or otherwise frustrating viewpoints rely on anecdotes or stories or personal beliefs ingrained from parents or even religion. And they often can only be refuted in the general sense with real information (supported by the good kind of anecdotes and stories!).
Yeah, it's damn unfortunate. But it's how the world is. You're basically right on the concept but wrong on the order. It's most effective when stories and anecdotes lead and are supported by data when possible (sometimes there is no data).

I don't think I've ever seen a public body wowed by someone testifying about numbers. We're dealing with humans and humans are emotional, reactive beings. George Lakoff has some great books about this.


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