Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[mattaudio]

So, I've seen two independent references today to SWLRT losing its federal funding. Any news on this?

[David Greene]

So, I've seen two independent references today to SWLRT losing its federal funding. Any news on this?

Sources?

[mattaudio]

http://finance-commerce.com/2014/03/deb ... into-2019/

[phop]

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/252480931.html

Doesn't mention anything related to federal funding.

The Metropolitan Council transit planners told the metro leaders that construction changes and past and future delays would increase the costs of a tunnel option they recommended last fall from $1.55 billion to $1.6 billion and delay the opening from 2018 to 2019. That option was put on hold by Gov. Mark Dayton after Minneapolis officials opposed it.

Two alternatives involving tunneling under a water channel linking Lake of the Isles and Cedar Lake could bring the cost to $1.7 billion or higher and delay the opening to 2020.

Rerouting the freight in St. Louis Park and building the light rail at ground level in the Kenilworth corridor would also cost $1.7 billion, but the work needed would delay the project to 2021.

[David Greene]

http://finance-commerce.com/2014/03/deb ... into-2019/

I can't read that but I did read the Strib version. I didn't read anything about losing federal funding. A range of possible delays is covered, some worse than others. Honestly, who *didn't* expect delays at this point? I agree that federal funding is at risk but I haven't heard anything even close to a rumor about actually losing funding.

[FISHMANPET]

I saw this on twitter from Peter McLaughlin:
https://twitter.com/McLaughlin_P/status ... 3109107712

But not sure what he's talking to with regard to SWLRT not advancing.

[sad panda]

I'd presume he's talking about other LRT projects advancing through the system - see slide 7 in the presentation for todays CMC meeting http://metrocouncil.org/getdoc/db1852e1 ... ation.aspx

Funny coming from McLaughlin, he's one of the first people who should be taking the blame.

[twincitizen]

McLaughlin will never accept any blame for steering SWLRT into this awful situation. Dorfman wised up and got the eff out before it hit the fan.

Blame lies squarely on the shoulders of county leadership for not doing a complete analysis of the freight re-route 5+ years ago. Between the lack of a legally binding agreement for St. Louis Park to take the freight, to the re-route not even being technically feasible as planned in the DEIS, to not including the cost of the re-route in the original project budget (or not getting MNDOT to agree to pay for it). Failure at every turn. And now it looks like the Met Council is the big screwup, unelected body that everyone already hates. That is not good for the future of our metro.

[mattaudio]

Peter McLaughlin defending SWLRT now feels like George W Bush defending the War in Iraq...

[illman00]

Can the project move ahead at all without Minneapolis' approval if they wanted to for the benefit of the region?

[Sara Bergen]

I saw this on twitter from Peter McLaughlin:
https://twitter.com/McLaughlin_P/status ... 3109107712

But not sure what he's talking to with regard to SWLRT not advancing.

After Jim Alexander (met council) presented the first eight slides, McLaughlin said a few words of translation. I will paraphrase. He said this is all bad news folks. In addition to the initial ten projects (one of which was swlrt) receiving funding in 2013, five more projects were added in 2014. Thus far SWLRT is one of two original ten projects still in the PD (not sure what this means) phase. Some of the next five projects have also progresses more than SWLRT. He impressed upon the folks at the CMC that this is not good. 2014 funds run out in august, and then 2015 funds will be available, but there was a rule change with the new starts program so now legacy systems (new york subway, chicago el, etc) can apply for capital improvements funds. So the pot of money will stay about the same but there will be a lot more competition for it. He seemed to be saying that it was a first-come first served situation.

Some other tidbits....when estimating that the line would not open until 2021 if a reroute option goes ahead, the met council assumed that the TC&W and CP (canadian pacific owns part of the land the tracks are on---hennepin owns most of it but CP owns some) adverse discontinuance actions that would likely be needed to get TC&W out of kenilworth would happen concurrently rather than sequentially. This is a pretty big assumption.

Wagenius asked a lot of questions. He wanted to know if the met council had included $$ in the budget to "buy out" homeowners along the kenilworth who dont' want to endure construction, and if $$ was included in the budget to reimburse homeowners along the kenilworth whose property values decrease as a result of the construction and operation of SWLRT. The met council said "no $$ budgeted to both". McLaughlin then added that the met council also has not included in its budget any monies that would result from capturing the value-added to properties along the SWLRT.

At the end Spano (SLP), Cheryl (hopkins), and Schneider (minnetonka) essentially said moving forward with the reroute is not going to happen, and Schneider specifically said that the two remaining options in his head are the original shallow tunnels and maybe the shorter "deeper shallow" tunnel option (not the longer deeper shallow tunnel).

After having attended I think five CMC meetings since October, the thing that most puzzles me is how the met council pussy foots (k, hesitate to use that because of the pussy part but this is a pretty boring post so why not throw in a giggle-able moment) around so much of the information it provides at the CMC. Last meeting Fuhrman made it seem like after meeting with the FTB, re-routing the freight was still in the plausible realm of reality. Regarding that letter from xcel, they basically said "xcel doesn't really know how much it would cost. more studies would be needed". While this is technically true, that is not the take away i got from reading xcel's letter. I would actually go so far as to say they are withholding information. I am wondering if staff got a beat-down after Dayton stepped in?

If you have any other questions about who discussed what, feel free to ask. I took a lot of notes.

Next week Wed three hours of fun, the final decision, and i believe they are opening it for public testimony.

[Anondson]

Thanks for the summary, Sara!

[TroyGBiv]

I have to say that this last minute lawsuit from a handful of Kenwood Isles Cedar Lake Trail residents is really disappointing. This has been discussed for many years - this lawsuit could have been filed 2 to 3 years ago to address this concern in a reasonable timeframe to not get this project grossly off schedule and in very real jeopardy of not getting funding. If you look at the list of core names in this "smart SWLRT" group they are all well versed in legal issues (lawyers and corporate executives) and I feel like this was a strategic move to force the MetCouncils hand in a last minute effort to save the decode worth of work on this line… really disappointing.

[David Greene]

Can the project move ahead at all without Minneapolis' approval if they wanted to for the benefit of the region?

According to what I've read (including state statute), yes. But it would all come down to what the Governor wants.

I very much doubt we will land in that situation.

[David Greene]

If you look at the list of core names in this "smart SWLRT" group they are all well versed in legal issues (lawyers and corporate executives) and I feel like this was a strategic move to force the MetCouncils hand in a last minute effort to save the decode worth of work on this line… really disappointing.

Of course it was deliberate. Powerful people know how to use power.

EDIT: I'm unable to find information about this lawsuit. Do you have a pointer?

[Tcmetro]

What a nightmare. The new tunnels under the channel are estimated to cost $270-345 million depending on the length. The tunnel is more expensive than the entire Midtown Corridor. Estimated opening has slipped to 2019 at the earliest. With the under-channel tunnel completion slips to 2020.

BTW: Here's the link to the presentation just in case anyone missed it:
http://metrocouncil.org/getdoc/db1852e1 ... ation.aspx

[exiled_antipodean]

The elected and appointed politicians involved in this mess strike me as mostly sincere people trying to do their best in a terribly flawed process (why do we need 5 levels of government involved in this thing?!) but the Kenilworth people seem extortionate. Basically "build us a deep tunnel so our lives aren't disrupted". The arrogance is amazing.

http://blogs.mprnews.org/cities/2014/03 ... ruly-deep/

[ECtransplant]

This is what happens when you try to build a train line through a neighborhood of limousine liberals that want a suburban lifestyle in a Minneapolis zip code

[acs]

Were there EP representatives at this meeting? I was noticing that it seems like a lot of the delay and extra cost could come from the mitchell road station. Did they have any comment on this or are they OK with scrapping it for now?

On a similar vein, what was the reaction from Minneapolis? I really don't see anything gained from the Long, below channel tunnel option over the shorter and cheaper "deep shallow" option.

[TroyGBiv]

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3177360.shtml "Possible Lawsuit Looms Over Southwest Light Rail" From October 2013
A coalition of groups opposed to the options being considered for the Southwest Light Rail (SWLRT) line is raising money for a potential lawsuit.

The Metropolitan Council is considering two options for the SWLRT, and they both include running the line right through the Kenilworth Corridor bike trail between Lake of the Isles and Cedar Lake. It is a pristine, wooded area and many people in the area, including the city of Minneapolis, oppose the idea of running the SWLRT line side-by-side with the existing railroad tracks next to the bike trail.

The Kenilworth Preservation Group is adamantly opposed to the idea and the other option of running a shallow tunnel through the same stretch of the SWLRT. Stuart Chazin heads up the Kenilworth Preservation Group (KPG).

He tells 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS the people opposed to the two options are "working diligently to avoid a lawsuit and encourage the Met Council to come up with other options, but if they go the route of the shallow tunnel, or co-location, there could very well be a lawsuit filed against either plan." Chazin says the groups are also "encouraging the city of Minneapolis to fight the Met Council's ideas through legal means, if necessary."

We asked the Met Council if a lawsuit could delay the billion-dollar SWLRT project, but a spokesperson told us the Met Council, as a policy, does not comment on pending litigation. The Met Council is expected to announce its preferred choices for the SWLRT line at its next meeting, Oct. 9.

The KPG is trying to get the Met Council to postpone action at the next meeting and take more time to consider other options besides the shallow tunnel plan or the co-location option.