MSP Airport / Metropolitan Airports Commission

[RailBaronYarr]

Didn't Rybak get his start before he was mayor as an organizer against the airport expansion? For better or worse airport noise is always going to be on his mind.

I was fine chatting HSR, but I know some people on here like to split threads like no one's business so I didn't want to offend.

See my post above for a bit of information on RNAV.

Also, its worth noting that the industry trend is currently moving towards larger planes flying with less frequency. Small regional jets are dinosaurs that the airlines can't get rid of fast enough. Based on this, and with the trend towards newer, quieter planes, it's entirely possible that on the whole, an airport handling more people could have fewer and quieter landings and takeoffs.

At least at MSP, I disagree. MSP's passenger/operation data used to list further back than 2008 (I did a study on this a while back, but can't find the data on the website anymore to validate, but still have my spreadsheet). In 2008, there were 226k major operations and 175k regional operations. In 2012, those numbers are 184k and 203k, respectively. In 2002, the major:regional ratio was 346k to 73k (you'll have to trust me). I remember doing an airline comparison and Delta and their subsidiaries and they are majorly to blame for the shift in shares since they took over from Northwest.

I'm not sure on Delta's future plans or any of the other airlines based out of MSP - I'm sure the smaller ones will start to operate longer distances and bigger planes as they grow, but I would hardly say the trend has been toward major flights favored over regional ones.

[MNdible]

Those numbers are lagging indicators and represent the failed regional jet experiment of the last 15 years, not the future.

Delta (and this includes its partners) is rushing to ditch the 50 seaters, and replacing them with larger jets. If you believe that MSP is going to have more passengers (and if not, the conversation is sort of moot), and if you believe that they'll be flying on Delta (and often into markets that are slot constrained), then they'll be shifting to larger planes.

With fuel becoming an ever-larger (and ever-more-volatile) slice of their operating costs, airlines will be moving to fly larger more efficient-per-passenger-mile planes. Or at least that's what the recent pattern of airplane purchases by airlines around the country tells us will be happening.

[UptownSport]

Going the wrong way, I know, but thought you'd get a kick outa this:

During the 1970s and early 1980s, commuter airline Lake State Airways offered scheduled airline service between the St. Paul Downtown Airport and Minneapolis–St. Paul International Airport in Minnesota. It cost $5USD for a one-way ticket between the two airports, and $10 round-trip.[4] Capitol Air flew MDW-STP with a Swearingen Metroliner for roughly a year starting December 1993.

Wikipedia Holman Field

[mattaudio]

Looks like a multi-year project is starting soon to expand the T2 apron. Wonder how this will impact the old NW Cargo ramp.

Total Cost: $15.3 million
2013 Cost: $5.47 million
Date: May 2013-Dec 2015
Impact: None
Benefit: Expansion to accommodate
six future aircraft gates

[Nick]

For the first time, I can see six planes lined up for landing from my window in Loring Park. Until a few days ago, I'd never seen more than four at any one time. Am I doing more staring out the window (very possible lately) or is traffic picking up?

[web]

could be new runway stacking???

[VAStationDude]

The federal budget sequestration has cut the FAA budget and consequently the number of air traffic controllers. Maybe planes are stacked waiting for landing clearance. If there's anything that could end budget stalemate it's a bunch of rich dudes tee'd off about flight delays calling their congress men.

[Chauncey87]

Pinnacle Airlines finds a new owner and a new headquarters

After it emerges from bankruptcy this month, the regional carrier will be owned by Delta and based in Minnesota.

Spring has a special, more than symbolic meaning for Pinnacle Airlines this year.

Later this month the regional carrier will emerge from a painful bankruptcy as a subsidiary of Delta Air Lines, a legacy carrier that is among the largest in the world.


http://www.startribune.com/business/201722271.html
Good news for MSP!

[beykite]

A340 flights start May 21st!

[Suburban Outcast]

After reading this article and seeing Air France come to MSP, hopefully that means Korean Air and Lufthansa can come here within the next couple of years.

Seeing us as the #4 airport for business travelers is impressive given the top 3 are primary international gateways, while I would consider MSP more of a secondary international gateway. We do have a ton of national and Canadian nonstops for business travelers for smaller and mid-size cities though, which is probably an added bonus for us.

[Tcmetro]

I think that #4 means that business travelers simply like how the airport looks/feels. There are still a lot of airports that feel crowded and old, EWR, LGA, LAX, CLE, SEA all come to mind as airports that still need major modernizations. IMO, DEN, IAD, SFO, IAH, DET, ORD are our nicer airports

[beykite]

I have heard rumors of Korean starting 2014. I would guess we'll see another Skyteam member before Lufthansa. Maybe KLM again? I know Hawaiian has been mentioned before too. And yes Denver is nice, but its creepy as hell haha. Going with the theme of what we have; Iceland, Canada and now France I'm guessing our next airline will be from some cold weather socialist country as well

[Suburban Outcast]

I think that #4 means that business travelers simply like how the airport looks/feels. There are still a lot of airports that feel crowded and old, EWR, LGA, LAX, CLE, SEA all come to mind as airports that still need major modernizations. IMO, DEN, IAD, SFO, IAH, DET, ORD are our nicer airports

True, but I think I would choose MSP over a place like O'Hare for a stopover if I could, if I was a business traveler. It would be nice to see MSP become a stronger secondary international hub for the Midwest. O'Hare will always be the primary one, but MSP could be served by some of the flights that DTW/Detroit have like Frankfurt, Shanghai, Seoul, etc.

Doesn't MSP have one of the least rates of delays and/or cancellations for major airports while ORD has one of the highest? I never really hear anything good about O'Hare from people I know.

And Beykite, I am fine with more nonstops to cold socialist countries , though since a Northwest stop to Oslo failed back in '98 (Along with Hong Kong, Osaka, and Frankfurt - looks like Northwest seemed ambitious at the time), maybe most Minnesotans of Scandinavian descent don't want to visit their ancestors, and nor do our ancestors want to visit MN haha.

[web]

yeah those detroit flights all used to be msp's back in the day

[TWA]

My aunt used to fly for NorthWest and did the hong kong flight- at the time it was one of the 5 longest non-stop flights in the world. I always wondered if those flights were destined to fail because some people may prefer a layover somewhere just to break up the monotony of a 15+ hr flight

[Suburban Outcast]

Long-haul flights probably only work between the largest world cities, like HK to Chicago is a nearly a 15hr flight but there is probably enough demand in Chicago to keep it a nonstop, plus it can used as a transfer point for people in other Midwestern or even East Coast cities.

A Detroit-Hong Kong nonstop didn't last long either I saw. If Delta wanted a nonstop flight to Hong Kong from a US city, they would probably do it at LAX, or maybe at SeaTac. Otherwise you can just do a stopover at Narita for the time being.

[mattaudio]

MSP-HKG could work on the 787 with fewer seats. Regarding MSP vs DTW, I think they ended up favoring DTW because it had more service to smaller east coast markets than MSP, which provided a lot of feed which was geographically suitable for Asian flights. Also, especially a decade or two ago, DTW had more business travel to Asia due to the auto markets (I think this is why DTW-NGO and KIX have worked). Now the gateway status has been legitimized due to the McNamara terminal.

[Didier]

It probably didn't help a MSP - Hong Kong flight that many U.S. travelers probably didn't begin their trip in Minnesota, making the experience even that much longer than 15 hours.

When considering MSP's potential international additions, I think you really have to take in the geography of Minnesota. MSP to destinations like London, Paris and Amsterdam are easy just because the destinations are all major European hubs and there will always be enough people. But secondary places with lots of competition might not be the best fit. So if you're from, say, Missouri and you want to go to Madrid, you'd probably be more inclined to connect through Chicago or New York or Atlanta than go way north to Minnesota first.

So in that respect, I think it's smart to go after secondary international routes that play to Minneapolis' strengths. Going to Iceland or Canada? Minnesota is a natural stopover. Same for going south; corral all of the northerners through Minnesota on the way to the Caribbean or Hawaii or other warm places. So I'd think Korea would be a good fit. Scandinavia is tough just because those countries really don't have big populations, but you'd think a limited flight there could work. Has there been much looked into Mexico?

I'm trying to think of other cities that have industrial connections to the Twin Cities but nothing is jumping out at me. This is kind of an aside, but the Star Tribune's Minnesota Wild beat writer was talking about the team's decision to move its minor league affiliate from Houston to Des Moines for next season, and he mentioned one of the advantages to Houston was that it had lots of direct flights into the Canadian oil cities. So if the team was in Edmonton and needed a player at the last minute, it really wasn't a challenge. I thought that was kind of interesting.

[mattaudio]

I've always wondered if Sun Country could team up with Icelandair to connect passengers to Iceland or even double stop itineraries to Europe.

[mulad]

I'm a little curious how much travel there is between Minnesota and India because of tech outsourcing, but it still seems like a better idea to run from MSP to Korea or Hong Kong to aggregate traffic from a few countries into a gateway. I imagine the existing MSP-NRT run handles that to some extent, though I was surprised to see some coworkers fly in the opposite direction (Something like MSP-CDG-BLR) to get to India. However, the most direct route MSP-BLR (for instance) almost takes you over the north pole, which probably wouldn't work for commercial service.