Saint Paul Union Depot

[mulad]

Just to straighten out the terminology a bit, the concourse is the short section of the building that goes over Kellogg Boulevard. The waiting room is the area over the train deck. I presume the ticketing area at40man was talking about is the new "retail" space fronting Kellogg where the Jefferson Lines and Amtrak counters are located. The building that fronts 4th Street is the headhouse, and the big central room where Christos is located is the "Great Hall".

When I've seen them close the waiting room, they've usually set things up so a narrow "hallway" is retained along the east side of the waiting room, which allows access to the stairways/escalators/elevators for the platform areas. The curtains they set up also usually leave a modest area open on the north end of the waiting room, but I don't think there's usually much seating in that space.

The concourse is usually set up with extra chairs when the waiting room is closed, and I suppose they could expand seating over into the Great Hall area if they had to. However, the information boards showing arrival/departure times are mostly in the waiting room area.

I imagine people prefer to stay in the ticketing area since there are staff people there and the riders don't have to worry about missing an important announcement.

[talindsay]

I hope they don't intend to keep renting out the waiting room for functions once real transit service is routinely using the station - I was there for an event and it was like it was a private event space - basically no recognition that it's a public transit facility. With March 2014 traffic levels it worked; it would be not good if there were actual transit services.

[at40man]

I imagine people prefer to stay in the ticketing area since there are staff people there and the riders don't have to worry about missing an important announcement.

Is it preference as much as lack of knowledge, though? There isn't sufficient space or seating in this area to accommodate a lot of people. With the fancy new sound system in the building, I would think important announcements could and should be broadcast to both the Waiting Room and the "retail"/ticketing area.

In other news, I noticed Amtrak has furnished their first class lounge and added a podium near Gate C.

I also wonder where on earth that giant fossil was discovered -- the plaque references a hidden room that doesn't appear on any plans. Intriguing!

[mulad]

I have trouble seeing how additional signage would help, considering the big honking interactive HDTV screens down in the ticketing area which I'm pretty sure default to showing an isometric view of the entire facility. I'm not sure what the deal is.

[at40man]

Nor do I understand the resistance to spending $100 on clear signage that directs people to an area with ample seating and amenities for waiting. Why recreate the conditions of Hawthorne or the Midway Amshack when we already have something much better? Note that the airport uses a combination of isometric maps and signage to direct people where to go, with signage being the primary. The mess that is Penn Station is a textbook example of why clear signage is so important.

To fit in with the historical character of the building, such a sign could even be reminiscent of the "pointer finger TO STATION" sign like Gate B has.

The rest of the Union Depot signage is quite good, so it is surprising this one would be overlooked. The more people start using the facility, the more important it will be to clearly and quickly direct people where to go.

[mulad]

Some fancy glowy retail kiosks have appeared inside. The image is blown out in the lit areas, but the vertical posts have "Union Depot" written on them sideways.

[mattaudio]

Part of the "Mall Of America Near You" outreach program?

[MSPtoMKE]

Where else are you going to buy a novelty cover for your iPhone?

[at40man]

Part of the "Mall Of America Near You" outreach program?

$200/month rental rate

http://finance-commerce.com/2014/05/roo ... ion-depot/

Apparently I'm not the only one concerned by people not using the Waiting Room to wait:

The rail authority is working on persuading passengers to come inside, said Deborah Carter McCoy, the authority’s communications manager. Building staff now go outside to notify passengers that they can use the waiting room.

[mattaudio]

Things will change when a) the Green Line drops folks off at the front so they walk through the headhouse and b) people are stuck waiting 4 to 6 hours to catch the lone eastbound train.... my guess is that will mean more foot traffic.

But what's happening right now that results in folks not waiting up in the concourse? They are making bus to bus connections down on the bus loop? "“It’s important to feel like you’re not going to miss the bus,” she said." -- another failure of NexTrip?

The Christos space also seems to give the feeling that the headhouse is not the place to walk through from the concourse to the street or skyway. That should change once the Green Line opens out front and more people mill about. Right now it can sometimes feel like you walked into the lobby of a restaurant, not a truly public space. I was at a wedding in there last fall, and that took over even *more* of the headhouse space and felt even more private. I'm not sure how it will work when you have a wedding reception in the headhouse and a full trainload of Empire Builder passengers from Chicago arriving late.

[talindsay]

If they want it to be a successful public space they're going to have to stop using massive portions of it for private events, period. Right now I can see that private events offset some of the maintenance costs and give it publicity before usage ramps up, but a public space needs to be a public space. Also, they need a lot more public amenities - convenience shop kind of stuff, sandwich places, etc., not just a fancy restaurant. Again, that can come with time, but they do need to stop being ambivalent about its public space being public.

Many of my favorite small European train stations have small sandwich / bar spaces, where you can sit and eat a croissant and drink a half pint of beer while waiting for your train. But of course since train stations are truly *public* in a way that airports are not, those same places can serve the local area as well. A huge bustling train station can have public spaces that survive on passenger volumes, but small local stations are often truly public spaces in the city, serving both passengers and locals. If they are careful in promoting the right kind of atmosphere, this can become like that. But they have to serve the passengers first, and that means getting them into the station.

[mattaudio]

European passenger stations have some truly amazing public spaces... cafes in train sheds are one of life's pleasures.

Also, Christos isn't that fancy at least in terms of price. Sure, it's a "WTCR" but they actually have a great happy hour before 6. Half price on appetizers and small plates, if I remember right. I was in there a few weeks ago and the wife and I ate a feast and had a drink for a total of about $15.

[mulad]

Trains magazine posted an article on Friday mentioning some of the Union Depot activities over the next few days. Joe Boardman, Amtrak's President and CEO, is expected at a 10:30 am ribbon cutting tomorrow. Of course, the first scheduled stop will be about 12 hours later (evening arrival planned for 10:03 pm).

Some bleachers are going to be set up on or near the Historic Stair for railfans to take photos of the trains as they come in for the first few days and for some train equipment that will be on-site for National Train Day. The Minnesota Transportation Museum is going to bring down a locomotive and some rail cars (arriving sometime on the 9th, departing the 11th).

The article also mentioned railfan webcams going up at uniondepot.org sometime soon.

In other news, a couple of trains have made test trips to the depot. There was one which apparently ran from Midway to SPUD on Sunday evening (a short train of one locomotive and 2 cars). And it looks like today's eastbound train paused at SPUD. This shot makes me really frustrated that there isn't a walkway/bikeway planned on the west side of the Lafayette Bridge:


History made: First Empire Builder at SPUD by steve55126, on Flickr

[mplser]

the trains are arriving tomorrow? this is news to me! YAY! now I can buy my ticket to chicago!

[at40man]

PiPress posted some photos today: http://photos.twincities.com/2014/05/07 ... n-depot/#1

I'm assuming Amtrak sent the special consist for this photo op?

[FISHMANPET]

That's an Amfleet car, which is what the pull out east because there aren't clearances for double decker trainsets. Amtrak 10001 is an "office" car, quoth wikipedia:

#10001 Beech Grove, a "Amfleet office car"[16] used for official business by the Amtrak president and other VIPs. The unique car has an open observation platform, lounge seating area, dining room, kitchen and 2 sleeping accommodations. The car also has lights, GPS equipment and a camera to inspect tracks for defects. It is named for Amtrak's Beech Grove Shops where the car was converted from an Amfleet I coach in 1984.[17]

[at40man]

Thanks! Pretty neat car.

Does anyone know what will be happening with the Midway station? I read somewhere that said it would be used for Administrative offices, but I have a feeling that the Amshack is so much larger than what Amtrak needs for offices. Why not move the rest of the office staff to the Depot?

[mulad]

I don't know if the Amtrak building itself will be used at all. Seems like they'll need someone there to keep the lights on, though. Last I heard, they're still planning on switching the 807/808 car (tacked onto the end of the train between Chicago and Saint Paul) at Midway, and some private cars are at the old station -- passengers for those will still board at Midway and have the cars attached to the train there. I don't think either of those things really need the building to be open.

As far as I can tell, the biggest reason to keep this goofy method of operation is the presence of Minnesota Commercial right next to Midway. With their roundhouse next door, there doesn't need to be a dedicated locomotive for the job, like they'd probably need at SPUD (whether operated directly by Amtrak or contracted to CP or Minnesota Commercial or BNSF or whoever). A dedicated locomotive at SPUD would sit unused 98% of the time, so it's probably cheaper to keep doing the switching at Midway. But one way to get around that might be to get a Brandt truck like Metro Transit has used for light rail train moves (it'd be nice to just borrow one from Metro Transit, but the couplers are wrong on theirs and there could pretty easily be some scheduling conflicts, depending on how badly Amtrak gets delayed on any given day).

I'm curious whether the owners of private cars currently at Midway want to stay put or not. Midway has probably been a decent place for them, since they get some nice tracks to display cars on. Graffiti and other vandalism happens pretty much anywhere rail cars are stored, but I wonder if Midway was generally better since there were people coming and going fairly regularly (even when the train isn't around, there are still others coming to get tickets or whatever). That foot traffic is going away now, of course. SPUD also doesn't have a nice display layout for the private cars -- they'd most likely be shoved off on a spur to the east, which wouldn't be so fun. The Union Depot does have security roaming the grounds pretty regularly, though.

The platform at SPUD is shorter than at Midway (1260 feet vs. 1600 for the longest one at Midway), and can't accommodate private car passengers quite as well (an Empire Builder train without extra cars is just about as long as the SPUD platform), but I'm convinced there are ways to do it with a minimum amount of fuss, particularly today with the complete absence of competing traffic from other passenger trains.

So yeah, a lot of idle speculation even though I don't have a proper answer...

[FISHMANPET]

Private rail cars, boy isn't that the dream.

[Andrew_F]

Really excited to be coming into SPUD on the #7 on Saturday. My only experience with SPUD since the remodel has been passing through on MegaBus 4-5 times over the last few months.