Saint Paul Union Depot

[spearson]

So, they announced the public art grants. I'm pretty disappointed. Half of the artists are out of state, and one of the projects is a large suspended sculpture in the Great Hall. So we painted it ugly colors to match how it was historically, but we're going to hang a giant steel & glass sculpture from the ceiling?

http://blog.regionalrail.org/?p=1233

From the facebook page:

An important note: Because 80 percent of the funding for the public art program comes from the Federal Transit Administration, we could not limit the selection to Minnesota artists. That said, two of the four commissions were awarded to local teams, which speaks to the incredible quality of the local artist community.

[THERAT]

AMTRAK platform issues??
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... ?4,2800346

[mulad]

I'll believe it when they start jackhammering the existing platform. I suspect there may be some confusion because the FRA enacted some new ADA compliance rules that went into effect early this year. Projects which began on or after February 1, 2012 would need to meet the new rules, but projects begun before that date would not (at least not yet -- all Amtrak stations except flag stops need to be fully handicapped accessible, whatever that means, by September 2015).

The new Northstar station in Ramsey needs to comply with the new rules, but the Union Depot probably skirts by, at least for now. Actually, the Ramsey station falls into an exception class since it's right along mainline tracks. Current Northstar stations appear to be compliant because they have mini-high platforms and the trains are equipped with onboard lifts (I've never seen the lifts used, so I don't know how well they work). The Union Depot would probably need to comply with stricter rules since their tracks are technically off the mainline and shouldn't carry freight trains (though I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries to sneak something through there).

There may also be confusion because Amtrak Superliners have 18" floors while the Wisconsin Talgos are apparently 21 or 22 inches above the rails. This whole ADA compliance issue got brought up last year as the Wisconsin legislature blocked further payments to Talgo, even though I don't think they would have really been affected by the new rules.

I'm not sure how high the Northstar's BiLevels are. It sounds like stations with dedicated tracks serving trains with multiple different equipment types are supposed to build platforms at the height of the lowest floor among them, but it's hard to say what to do in the Twin Cities when there are multiple different heights being used and there may be more waiting in the wings. (Incidentally, I think the Hiawatha Line trains have 14" floors.)

Here's one graphic (found here) showing different floor and platform heights (and it clearly doesn't show everything out there):

Train Platform Heights.jpg

Trying to have everything be roll-on/roll-off across the country just isn't going to happen without a massive investment (billions, I would guess). Some stations can have multiple platforms with different heights, but there's still a variety of equipment out there which isn't very consistent. Not to mention that there are corporate and governmental rules and regulations out there worrying about equipment (or workers) hanging off the sides. These rules seem pretty antiquated, but it's hard to get the railroads and other interested parties to change their minds about clearance issues. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the FRA themselves are inconsistent about platform heights and clearance (though they seem to be more realistic about it now than they were a few years ago).

[LRV Op Dude]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmhX4pGZdIw[/youtube]

[mulad]

Looks like they decided to give up on the idea of putting a sidewalk on the north side of Kellogg (it was really narrow anyway -- down to 1 foot 8 inches at Sibley), but it's kind of good to have a full two lanes properly striped in both directions under the concourse now:



The old configuration could have some traffic-calming effects, but sometimes it just pissed people off and caused people to gun it as soon as they got through the narrowed zone. The new continuous concrete median is nice, though. Left turns are now prevented by a median which extends another block, ending at Wall Street (left turns allowed there).



Pedestrians can still cross at Kellogg and Wacouta (better now because of the median refuge space), and there's a new pedestrian signal.

[Le Sueur]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmhX4pGZdIw[/youtube]

Are my eyes playing tricks on me, or did they tone down The Great Northern yellow paint? There is a shot at 18:12 that is bright yellow compared to the one on the tour at 19:21. It could just be the sun from the skylights on a different day. Either way I think the yellow is growing on me.

[mulad]

This is supposed to be 95% complete by October 15th and be officially done in December. Reportedly a little bit ahead of schedule according to a member of the Passenger Rail Forum (though I suspect any date prior to December 31st qualifies for "ahead of schedule"...).

[aguaman]

too bad it's not ahead of schedule for service. it would be nice to see that happen yet this year...

[mulad]

Just thought this would be interesting as a historical oddity -- digging around on the Central Corridor website, I came across a 2008 plan for the Union Depot. This is very different from what is being finished up now. It has some good points and bad points -- I probably would have pushed to keep the bus ramp close to the building rather than having it 2 blocks away at Broadway Street. Then again, buses would still have to loop around in weird ways to get around the LRT platform in front of the depot.

The big structure for the Amtrak retail space also didn't really exist here, with inward-facing stairways for reaching the bus platform area.

Up in front, the LRT platform was then planned as a center platform, rather than the two side platforms that have been constructed -- I'm still a little surprised that it was built that way since trains end up departing on both tracks at the end of a line, but perhaps there were some track geometry issues or something -- over in the Stadium Village area in Minneapolis, tracks stay wide apart for a block or two on either end of the East Bank station, and that would have consumed a lot of fairly limited space in Lowertown.

Union_Depot_2008_plan.jpg

[Lancestar2]

they have 33 Condos in the same building? how fun would it be to live here! anybody know of any pictures of them? looks like they are all filled up now can't find anything about them online.

[Tcmetro]

http://www.twincityloft.com/

[aguaman]

Just thought this would be interesting as a historical oddity -- digging around on the Central Corridor website, I came across a 2008 plan for the Union Depot. This is very different from what is being finished up now...

Once it was determined that the shops/yards facility was further east, the lrt cross-platform transfer with other modes at spud was not realistic due to the need for the lrvs to back out to continue towards the facility. unless they were not going there each cycle in which case it was not an issue.

[aguaman]

Study: East-metro rail upgrades will punch a pricey ticket
Article by: JIM ANDERSON , Star Tribune Updated: October 15, 2012 - 9:05 PM

Picture St. Paul's Spaghetti Junction at the peak of rush hour, traffic inching along like a paralytic millipede through one of the most notorious bottlenecks in the Twin Cities.

Now imagine 36 percent more vehicles.

For added stress, throw in a slew of new buses.

That's the kind of scenario confronting railroads and transit planners trying to prepare for growing demands on the east metro's freight system, while adding to it an array of ambitious new passenger train services.

The tab for all the improvements needed to keep those trains rolling between St. Paul and Hastings is estimated at $827 million, according to a federally funded study led by the Ramsey County Regional Railroad Authority. The Authority is the Ramsey County Board in a different role.
[more]

[Andrew_F]

Not sure if there has been an opening date announced somewhere, but the Union Depot facebook page put up a new image today with the tagline "The Journey Begins Again December 8, 2012"

[mulad]

They put up an announcement on Facebook saying that there will be festivities at the Depot starting at 10 a.m. on December 8th. Metro Transit is supposed to begin using the bus stops that day (though the 21 is only route that will go there on weekends). There should be some tours that day.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-unio ... 8665923747

Still no word on when Amtrak will begin service there, other than "next year".

[seanrichardryan]

http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/182112301.html

[twincitizen]

Anyone from here going on Saturday?

[mattaudio]

Yep but probably later.

[mulad]

Here's a PDF with a guide to events and a "transit pass" which you can use to get a commemorative poster after visiting different parts of the depot and getting it stamped.

Looks like the uniondepot.org website has been updated, though it's very basic at the moment. Looks like they were trying to link to the PDF I received (I got it through an e-mail), but their link is 404.

union-depot-guide.jpg

union-depot-pass2.png

[David Greene]

Anyone from here going on Saturday?

I hope to!