Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Oreos&Milk
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Oreos&Milk » February 20th, 2020, 10:34 am

If a new route that includes a (or two) west end station were to be considered I would say that’s a great victory for the delay.

gopherfan
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby gopherfan » August 3rd, 2020, 11:08 am

Breaking News: BNSF right-of-way is officially dead for Bottineau.

https://content.govdelivery.com/account ... ns/29891ee

Bakken2016
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » August 3rd, 2020, 11:16 am

Breaking News: BNSF right-of-way is officially dead for Bottineau.

https://content.govdelivery.com/account ... ns/29891ee
This is honestly for the best! Let’s choose a route that will actually serve transit dependent people!


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grant1simons2
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby grant1simons2 » August 3rd, 2020, 11:24 am

They're going to keep pushing forward with a new alignment

https://content.govdelivery.com/account ... ns/29891ee
We are optimistic that moving this project in a new direction presents an exciting opportunity to revisit and improve the METRO Blue Line Extension project to serve even more people and destinations, while maintaining as much of the existing alignment as possible.

Tom H.
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tom H. » August 3rd, 2020, 11:29 am

Does anyone know if the BNSF property in question is the entirety of the proposed BNSF co-location, or only a portion of it? It seems to be like all alternatives considered originally require some amount of BNSF co-location, especially in the vicinity of downtown Robbinsdale.

I guess my dream outcome at this point would be for Alternative 2 (or some variation thereof) to be resurrected and built out to Robbinsdale, and let that portion serve as the "local match" for FTA funding for the remainder.

Does anybody know if the Green Line extension work near Target Field effectively forecloses any of the other routing alternatives?

alexschief
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alexschief » August 3rd, 2020, 11:44 am

Replacing BNSF right-of-way in the northern part of the project is easy to solve. It just requires the political will locally and at MnDOT to seize lanes on Bottineau Boulevard from cars. If they could do the same thing a decade and a half ago with University Ave, they can do it today, when the case for modal shift is even stronger.

Any reboot of the project has to include a new station at the hospital, it is an absolute crime that the previous plans did not include one.

The actual technical challenge of a realignment is in North Minneapolis. We've discussed this before, but Broadway is the only option in my mind, even if it's a tight fit with dedicated transit lanes and cars. But the current version of Broadway is appalling, and with reconstruction for light rail would also come the opportunity to completely rebuild and redesign the road in a much more appealing way. The best way to get the train from Target Field Station to Broadway is via Lyndale Ave N, which is a little-used road in this section that is relied on by nobody for egress.

The alternative to Broadway and Lyndale N, or at least part of it, would be to dig a short subway from Target Field perhaps to the end of the Broadway crescent when the street straightens out and heads almost due NW. You'd need a TBM to do this, and would have to excavate at least one station at Emerson and Fremont, and so I think it's difficult to justify.

kellonathan
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby kellonathan » August 3rd, 2020, 11:51 am

I wonder if this move essentially kills the C Line aBRT relocation to Glendale.

I also hope this motivates MnDOT to take another look at rightsizing Olson Hwy, or just flat out decommission the Hwy outside the Mpls city limits.
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grant1simons2
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby grant1simons2 » August 3rd, 2020, 12:13 pm

Was there ever alignment discussion from 7th to Dupont, then onto Broadway? Dupont is somewhat wide, and this 90 degree could possibly work.

Image

SurlyLHT
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby SurlyLHT » August 3rd, 2020, 12:56 pm

I think Lyndale to Lowry is best. W. Broadway is too challenging technically and politically. Here's a new idea...Lyndale to the Canadian Pacific Right away near Camden? Maybe there is room on the Southern end of the yard to sneak LRT through?

Bakken2016
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » August 3rd, 2020, 12:57 pm

I think Lyndale to Lowry is best. W. Broadway is too challenging technically and politically. Here's a new idea...Lyndale to the Canadian Pacific Right away near Camden? Maybe there is room on the Southern end of the yard to sneak LRT through?
Let's stop trying to take the easy way, that is how we end up with bad routes. Lets me loud and political for a good routing!

mattaudio
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » August 3rd, 2020, 1:02 pm

871898DA-E2D3-4B35-AADD-E21E48E6B639.jpeg

SurlyLHT
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby SurlyLHT » August 3rd, 2020, 1:10 pm

I think Lyndale to Lowry is best. W. Broadway is too challenging technically and politically. Here's a new idea...Lyndale to the Canadian Pacific Right away near Camden? Maybe there is room on the Southern end of the yard to sneak LRT through?
Let's stop trying to take the easy way, that is how we end up with bad routes. Lets me loud and political for a good routing!
The alternate of Penn to W. Broadway is feasible. Lyndale to Lowry is probably the best and 45th would also work well. Going through the heart of W. Broadway however I suspect is politically infeasible.

MNdible
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby MNdible » August 3rd, 2020, 1:13 pm

The alternative to Broadway and Lyndale N, or at least part of it, would be to dig a short subway from Target Field perhaps to the end of the Broadway crescent when the street straightens out and heads almost due NW. You'd need a TBM to do this, and would have to excavate at least one station at Emerson and Fremont, and so I think it's difficult to justify.
I'd been largely dismissive of early discussions about a full subway through North Minneapolis, but I could envision a routing that would follow N 7th St at grade across I-94, and then enter a tunnel near Plymouth and re-emerge at the Broadway crescent, where the Broadway ROW relaxes. This would be a relatively short tunnel, and it could be done without requiring a subgrade station, which would escalate the costs.

grant1simons2
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby grant1simons2 » August 3rd, 2020, 1:25 pm

The alternative to Broadway and Lyndale N, or at least part of it, would be to dig a short subway from Target Field perhaps to the end of the Broadway crescent when the street straightens out and heads almost due NW. You'd need a TBM to do this, and would have to excavate at least one station at Emerson and Fremont, and so I think it's difficult to justify.
I'd been largely dismissive of early discussions about a full subway through North Minneapolis, but I could envision a routing that would follow N 7th St at grade across I-94, and then enter a tunnel near Plymouth and re-emerge at the Broadway crescent, where the Broadway ROW relaxes. This would be a relatively short tunnel, and it could be done without requiring a subgrade station, which would escalate the costs.
This was the route I had in mind!

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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby DanPatchToget » August 3rd, 2020, 1:27 pm

Since it's pretty much back to the drawing board, how about rerouting it to Maple Grove instead of a corporate campus in the middle of farm fields?

Bakken2016
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » August 3rd, 2020, 1:28 pm

Since it's pretty much back to the drawing board, how about rerouting it to Maple Grove instead of a corporate campus in the middle of farm fields?
City of Brooklyn Park would never let that happen in my opinion, they were promised LRT they are still going to want it.


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Silophant
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Silophant » August 3rd, 2020, 2:22 pm

Now that this is presumably at the back of the line and 10+ years out again, what if we spent some of the money on track rights and upgrades and extended the (already BNSF-operated) Northstar out along this line to Osseo or so, with a couple midday runs instead of exclusively rush-hour? Or would the various powers that be insist that if the SW suburbs get a high-frequency train, the NW suburbs deserve no less?
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alexschief
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alexschief » August 3rd, 2020, 2:26 pm

The alternative to Broadway and Lyndale N, or at least part of it, would be to dig a short subway from Target Field perhaps to the end of the Broadway crescent when the street straightens out and heads almost due NW. You'd need a TBM to do this, and would have to excavate at least one station at Emerson and Fremont, and so I think it's difficult to justify.
I'd been largely dismissive of early discussions about a full subway through North Minneapolis, but I could envision a routing that would follow N 7th St at grade across I-94, and then enter a tunnel near Plymouth and re-emerge at the Broadway crescent, where the Broadway ROW relaxes. This would be a relatively short tunnel, and it could be done without requiring a subgrade station, which would escalate the costs.
That's a better idea. I only see one obvious full take: the MPS building, which would likely be where you'd put the Plymouth Avenue (and Emerson/Fremont D Line connection) Station. Your partial takes would even be helpfully limited if you put can put a big ventilation and emergency access shaft in the parking lot of North Commons Park.
Since it's pretty much back to the drawing board, how about rerouting it to Maple Grove instead of a corporate campus in the middle of farm fields?
The alignment will have to change, but I'm virtually certain that the corridor will not.

Bakken2016
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » August 3rd, 2020, 2:34 pm

Now that this is presumably at the back of the line and 10+ years out again, what if we spent some of the money on track rights and upgrades and extended the (already BNSF-operated) Northstar out along this line to Osseo or so, with a couple midday runs instead of exclusively rush-hour? Or would the various powers that be insist that if the SW suburbs get a high-frequency train, the NW suburbs deserve no less?
I don't think it will push it out that far.

Tcmetro
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » August 3rd, 2020, 2:35 pm

What about Lyndale to 21st, then a few takings to get the alignment back onto Broadway somewhere near Irving or Ilion?


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