Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Bakken2016
Rice Park
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » January 26th, 2021, 1:14 pm

You all don't get it. Once word gets out that this will require tearing down homes or businesses it will be seen as an intrusion by outsiders and bring back memories of 94. Policy talk and city planning best practices, wouldn't change this view. I'm sure people were told the same things when 94 was put through. Why should Northsiders believe any experts who have pre-conceived notions of what's best for others? The idea that somehow the effects of this won't be severe on the Northside and that a few better transit connections will make it worth it is wishful thinking. Especially, if they end up deciding Olson Memorial-> Penn --> W. Broadway given that the C Line already runs on this and that stretch of Penn is already seeing TOD and has character via some very nice homes lining the road. (This is probably the most likely route)
You seem to be the only one in disagreement. The planners have also said they are looking at routings that compliment the C and D Lines, I don't see this going up Penn Ave. It will most likely use North Lyndale to West Broadway or some form of tunnel. Also if you attended the meeting i discussed earlier that sparked all this conversation, the Northside wants this project and they want it done correctly.

uptownbro
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 162
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby uptownbro » January 26th, 2021, 1:32 pm

Agreed, no one this saying its possible to sell the community on I-94 2.0
I think either some form of tunnel/elevated option would be a easy sell to many people and light rail has proven to be popular in MN.
Just eyeing it, why couldn't it take 7th from target field to Lyndale to West Broadway.

DanPatchToget
Foshay Tower
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby DanPatchToget » January 26th, 2021, 2:12 pm

Even if the Blue Line Extension required tearing down homes and businesses in the Northside, which it definitely won't, there's a big difference between a double-track electric light rail and an interstate highway with thousands of GHG emitting cars and trucks. But I want to emphasize that the Blue Line Extension will NOT require taking homes and/or businesses. They can shoehorn the light rail on existing roads, or tunnel under the Northside. Preferably the latter.

tmart
Rice Park
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby tmart » January 26th, 2021, 2:30 pm

You all don't get it. Once word gets out that this will require tearing down homes or businesses it will be seen as an intrusion by outsiders and bring back memories of 94. Policy talk and city planning best practices, wouldn't change this view. I'm sure people were told the same things when 94 was put through. Why should Northsiders believe any experts who have pre-conceived notions of what's best for others? The idea that somehow the effects of this won't be severe on the Northside and that a few better transit connections will make it worth it is wishful thinking. Especially, if they end up deciding Olson Memorial-> Penn --> W. Broadway given that the C Line already runs on this and that stretch of Penn is already seeing TOD and has character via some very nice homes lining the road. (This is probably the most likely route)
You seem to be the only one in disagreement. The planners have also said they are looking at routings that compliment the C and D Lines, I don't see this going up Penn Ave. It will most likely use North Lyndale to West Broadway or some form of tunnel. Also if you attended the meeting i discussed earlier that sparked all this conversation, the Northside wants this project and they want it done correctly.
Yeah, like IIRC, Jeremiah Ellison (the CM for this ward) was among those pushing super hard for a reroute that would be more centrally-located in North. That's not to say he speaks for everyone in North, but it's a very good sign.

SurlyLHT
Foshay Tower
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby SurlyLHT » January 27th, 2021, 4:29 pm

Time will tell. It's better to listen to Phillippe than Jeremiah. I've been to 3 community meetings with him in 2020 and each one he was screamed at by irate residents. One of them the residents had to organize him and his staff so that they whole thing wasn't Jerry Springer. It was for a homeless shelter being proposed, I'll never forget he was asked about the current shelters in the Ward, said he didn't know and referred to the County. (He had called the meeting to talk about a shelter.) Residents ended up getting the County Commissioner to stand up and speak and she did a better job. But, she pulled the proposal a few days later. The county failed at the engagement.

There is no way this is going in without tearing something down. The prior analysis showed where homes would be torn down on Penn Ave. This isn't a 6 lane freeway, but it is a wall, you can't cross the tracks wherever you wish. W. Broadway currently has many lights and intersections, a number of those would have to be closed segregating North ironically along the border of the Highs and Lows gangs.

DanPatchToget
Foshay Tower
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby DanPatchToget » January 27th, 2021, 4:37 pm

Well then you should be advocating for a tunnel option like I am.

SurlyLHT
Foshay Tower
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby SurlyLHT » January 27th, 2021, 4:46 pm

A tunnel is a waste of money. A point I was trying to make is that the cost that would need to be spent in the Northside, isn't worth the benefits they will get. The Northside would be better off if the local portion of the $$ was used for youth centers and on the Office of Violence Prevention and on making sure we have enough MPD staffing to do community programs like PALS. (At a mtg last night they said they didn't.)

The Northside has competent and at times pretty nice transit, it feels like we're at the bottom of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs and this LRT is a few levels up. People need to feel safe, their kids needs to few safe and people need food and housing before they need a tunnel going through their neighborhood and fancy LRT. It isn't hard to get Downtown or to the Brooklyn's. (Getting to South Mpls is hard though.)

Bakken2016
Rice Park
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Joined: September 20th, 2017, 12:40 pm
Location: North Loop

Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » January 27th, 2021, 4:52 pm

A tunnel is a waste of money. A point I was trying to make is that the cost that would need to be spent in the Northside, isn't worth the benefits they will get. The Northside would be better off if the local portion of the $$ was used for youth centers and on the Office of Violence Prevention and on making sure we have enough MPD staffing to do community programs like PALS. (At a mtg last night they said they didn't.)
You make it seem like we can't do both. I would also remind you dollars that are earmarked for transit both at the local level and federal level can only be spent on transit.

There are also many Northsiders that would like to see MPD have less money, and have city funds put towards other public safety initiatives.

Tcmetro
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » February 4th, 2021, 9:54 am

There are meetings today and tomorrow for the Blue Line extension:

https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation ... rials.aspx

Silophant
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Silophant » February 11th, 2021, 3:10 pm


tmart
Rice Park
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby tmart » February 11th, 2021, 3:21 pm

Not an expert on how these things work but if they're expecting to get through all that process by the end of the year, I have to imagine that the new alignment is probably not gonna be radically different from the options that were presented before.

SurlyLHT
Foshay Tower
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby SurlyLHT » February 11th, 2021, 3:30 pm

They should be posting today's Mtg soon. I listened to part of it before going to a different meeting. CM Cunningham and Mayor Frey had alternates, Ellison wasn't there and didn't have an alternate. I presume they were invited given the LRT is likely going through Ward 5?



http://metrocouncil.granicus.com/ViewPu ... ?view_id=2

uptownbro
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby uptownbro » February 11th, 2021, 3:34 pm

What were the old alternative options for the line?
Maybe they are dusting off one of those.

SurlyLHT
Foshay Tower
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby SurlyLHT » February 11th, 2021, 3:53 pm

What were the old alternative options for the line?
Maybe they are dusting off one of those.
They looked at Penn Ave/ Queen Ave's the most.

https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation ... tives.aspx

tmart
Rice Park
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Location: Expat

Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby tmart » February 11th, 2021, 4:22 pm

What were the old alternative options for the line?
Maybe they are dusting off one of those.
They looked at Penn Ave/ Queen Ave's the most.

https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation ... tives.aspx
The Scoping Decision document (linked from the one you posted) also has lots of details on why certain alignments through North were eliminated: https://metrocouncil.org/METC/files/db/ ... 1e2fa1.pdf

uptownbro
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby uptownbro » February 11th, 2021, 4:25 pm

Thank you!
Really most would be an improvement including D2 which I would assume is the "fall back" option and one that would actually serve north Minneapolis.

Mdcastle
Foshay Tower
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Mdcastle » February 11th, 2021, 7:13 pm

The takeaway seems to be that using Broadway east of Penn was a no-go for a huge kaleidoscope of reasons, so then and probably now what's left is to figure out the best way to run it down Oliver, Penn, or Queen.

Tcmetro
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » February 11th, 2021, 7:48 pm

My read on it is that they will explore an array of alignments in North Minneapolis. I would really like to see something go down Broadway. I think they could even get away with surface routing by using Lyndale and 21st if the financial capacity doesn't work for a tunnel. I think it is very likely that Penn-Olson becomes part of the discussion as well, but that corridor is much more residential.

Trademark
Metrodome
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Trademark » February 11th, 2021, 8:26 pm

My read on it is that they will explore an array of alignments in North Minneapolis. I would really like to see something go down Broadway. I think they could even get away with surface routing by using Lyndale and 21st if the financial capacity doesn't work for a tunnel. I think it is very likely that Penn-Olson becomes part of the discussion as well, but that corridor is much more residential.
The corridor as a whole is much more residential but the nodes at plymouth, Golden valley rd and Lowry are decent mixed use with potential for further growth going forward. But yes Broadway as a whole needs to be the frontrunner.

Trademark
Metrodome
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Trademark » February 11th, 2021, 8:41 pm

If this project goes onto Penn Avenue as a streetcar with no dedicated lanes. I will personally collect signatures to try and bring a stop to this and invite anyone interested in joining me. North Minneapolis deserves better transit and the way this project is being rushed feels like we'll end up with the easiest option instead of the best.

Penn Ave deserves it's own quality transit (perhaps future rail from Penn Ave station and 394 to Brooklyn center transit center) and west Broadway definitely deserves it's own quality transit.

Getting half assed solutions for both corridors while the southwest corridor is getting the 5 star treatment is unacceptable!


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