urbanMSP

Yup, the one place where there are incentives to not drive (express routes, parking prices, congestion), people respond and do something else.

For everything else it's easier and cheaper to drive.

In my experience, getting off a congested interstate to try to save time on city streets is almost always a losing proposition.

In my experience, getting off a congested interstate to try to save time on city streets is almost always a losing proposition.

Getting off the interstate, perhaps--because a ton of time gets eaten up on on/off-ramps, and getting to/from whatever other arterial street you end up using. What about not getting on the interstate in the first place?

Typically if 35W is backed up I've found city streets to be equally so. And you always think it'll be faster to take some back road, but then you wait 10 minutes to get through a stoplight or four-way stop.

I hate sitting in stop and go freeway traffic, but it's really never faster to try to bypass 94 traffic on University or Franklin/Riverside, for example. There's always one light that kills you.

We’ve normalized driving 10, 20, 30 miles.

These are called interstates for a reason.

Typically if 35W is backed up I've found city streets to be equally so. And you always think it'll be faster to take some back road, but then you wait 10 minutes to get through a stoplight or four-way stop.

Depends on the street. And that stoplight or four-way stop is almost certain where you meet freeway traffic.

I hate sitting in stop and go freeway traffic, but it's really never faster to try to bypass 94 traffic on University or Franklin/Riverside, for example. There's always one light that kills you.

Yeah, it's not faster, but it might be more pleasant and not all that much slower.

I know the convo is getting a bit stale here, but I’m just getting through threads from the last couple weeks, and this one stood out because of all of the recent weather-related traffic issues.

Regarding driving on 94/35W for intracity travel: While it might be worth examining the worthiness of these routes in the long term, there’s obviously a reason people use them – they’re significantly quicker even during peak travel times than city streets. I vastly prefer driving on city streets just because of the views, but my work commute is a pretty stark contrast on speeds getting around the city. I live within a few blocks of the Lyndale entrance to 94 and work in DT St. Paul just off the 5th Street exit. It is so incredibly rare that any route is competitive with the highway—it’s frequently double the time, even without traffic.

Sometimes a crash or event in downtown Minneapolis will route me off 94 at 280 to take Franklin home in the evenings. I’ve had a handful of AM crashes that forced me off at Snelling. The only time I’ve ever completely avoided 94 was last week during the snow storm. Taking Grand from downtown to St. Thomas, then Cretin (?) to Mississippi River Blvd to Franklin took 2 hours…94 was 50 minutes longer than that. But that’s an aberration.

If anything, though, 94 could use a diet. There’s just never real backups in either direction from 280 to DT St. Paul. It could probably survive with two general traffic lanes and a transit/HOV lane (no need for the appearing and disappearing lanes along here).

The Transportation Committee of the MPLS City Council unanimously passed a resolution about MNDOT Rethinking I-94 project. The TLDR of it screw you car lanes, build a BRT line down the middle. I was wondering why to go with BRT instead LRT and create an express route between US Bank Stadium & the X, tying into the Riverview line? Have a dedicated ROW take up the center two lanes with inline stops at the U (somehow) and Snelling. If the state/feds were already going to spend the time and money to completely rebuild the highway adding LRT surely has to be justifiable.

Resolution https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download ... lution.pdf
MNDOT Page http://www.dot.state.mn.us/I-94minneapolis-stpaul/

This study is taking a very long time to complete. Glad to see that the city is making some demands that will hopefully influence the project outcome. Much different than even a few years ago with the Crosstown Commons and 35W/Lake projects.

It should be dedicated bus lanes so BRT plus regular express routes can use it. I hope they will consider extending the Gold Line from St. Paul to Minneapolis via I-94 with a few intermediate stops (Snelling, near the U of M, and the Seward neighborhood). https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... sp=sharing

I guess just getting dedicated ROW for transit in the corridor is a place to start. That can be converted to tracks later if apportioned. Biggest thing is to avoid more SOV lanes and pavement. In fact, some carefully tailored reductions could actually improve flow and reduce congestion.

Yeah, this is a "politics is the art of the possible" thing. Converting a couple lanes to HOT, like 35W has, and building a Snelling station so the Gold Line can be extended to Minneapolis with minimal additional investment seems possible, if difficult, to get MnDOT to agree to. Taking the lanes away from SOVs entirely, laying tracks, and adding an additional LRT spine to each downtown (The existing corridor in Minneapolis is at capacity with 12 trains per direction per hour, and I'm assuming the St Paul side would be the same once Riverview is built) onto a freeway rebuild project would probably just be laughed out of the room, unfortunately.

MnDOT started Rethinking I-94 in 2016 to develop a new vision with the community. MnDOT is committed to doing better. Rethinking I-94 intends to reconnect neighborhoods, revitalize communities and ensure residents have a meaningful voice in transportation decisions that affect their lives.

Fill it in?

LRT would take way too long to plan and build compared to BRT with either HOT or dedicated lanes, imo.

Time would be better spent getting the BRT with HOT or dedicated lanes and then planning an alternative LRT route along something like Marshall/Lake if demand is still high enough. Improving reliability and frequency of service on the 94 and other possible between the downtown express routes sooner would be more prudent imo.

There is a big additional cost both capital expenditure and operationally to build light rail. When the benefit of it is very limited. If we want rail between downtown's we should look commuter rail in between pierce butler and energy park

Minneapolis' resolution is very very good and lays out lots of smart priorities beyond just BRT.

If there's one thing that's disappointing to me in this whole process, it's that removal/conversion to a boulevard doesn't even seem to be on the table, even despite all the clauses laid out for why the highway is not serving the neighborhood well at all. I get that it's politically challenging, particularly because of federal involvement, but it should still at least show up in the alternatives phase for any urban road project in this day and age.

I'm curious what sorts of mitigations will be included to reconnect neighborhoods, in lieu of actually tearing the thing out.

There is a big additional cost both capital expenditure and operationally to build light rail. When the benefit of it is very limited. If we want rail between downtown's we should look commuter rail in between pierce butler and energy park

Yeah, I think it's better to connect the downtowns via regional rail on existing tracks. An additional benefit is being able to through-route (west suburbs-Minneapolis-St. Paul-east suburbs).

As for converting I-94 into a boulevard, if it were to happen would it likely go from Highway 280 on the west end to I-35E on the east end? Seems quite feasible to me, but unfortunately I'm sure MnDOT prefers as little change as possible besides new pavement and improved pedestrian bridges. They can feel free to prove me wrong though.

I would much rather see I-94 capped or turned into a boulevard from 280 to 55 as this would reconnect prospect park as well as riverside.
For St Paul honestly capping the area between the capital and DT is much ore important for the city then removing the highway at this point.

What exactly does boulevard mean in this context? Like just a freeway with some extra trappings to make it nicer, kind of like 35E south of downtown St. Paul? Or like a full-on conversion to something other than a freeway?

Multi-way blvd?