Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

[MSPtoMKE]

Hmmm, perhaps it is the less frequent service than what is proposed for Arterial BRT?
No, but seriously I think it is the bus only shoulders and stations that are larger and farther apart than aBRT. I tend to agree that it is not quite up to the standards of being classified as a Metro line. But then BRT in North America is almost always done on the cheap.

[mplser]

With the exception of the freeway segment (and there are no on-freeway stops) and the bus shoulders, how exactly is this different than the proposed aBRT closer to the core? Seems similar... a slightly nicer fleet, offboard payment/POP, nicer stops and digital signage, and signal priority. Honestly this service will be nice but I don't understand how this is LRT on wheels, meriting "Red Line" designation like Blue or Green.

it ISN'T LRT on wheels. It is mostly a way for them to take away from transit funds to build more highway lanes

[LRV Op Dude]

METRO Red Line BRT Service start date is Saturday, June 22, 2013 will be considered at the Metropolitan Council Transportation Committee on Monday, March 25, 2013

[Chauncey87]

Will developers go along for the ride on Bus Rapid Transit?

Planners look to bring LRT moxie to Red Line

When Denver, Colo.-based Titan Development acquired property in Apple Valley four years ago, developers had little idea a Bus Rapid Transit line would eventually connect the Dakota County community with its urban neighbors to the north.

But as groundbreaking on its $38 million, 332-unit apartment project approaches, Titan is finding value in being located a half-mile west of the Apple Valley Transit Station, one of five BRT stops that will serve the so-called Red Line scheduled to open June 22.


Read more: http://finance-commerce.com/2013/03/wil ... z2OtdRQfqf

[QuietBlue]

I'm pretty sure they meant a half mile east, since a half mile west would put it in the middle of an existing subdivision. Plus, east is where the existing open space is.

[UptownSport]

When Denver, Colo.-based Titan Development acquired property in Apple Valley four years ago, developers had little idea a Bus Rapid Transit line would eventually connect the Dakota County community with its urban neighbors to the north.

But as groundbreaking on its $38 million, 332-unit apartment project approaches, Titan is finding value in being located a half-mile [some direction] of the Apple Valley Transit Station, one of five BRT stops that will serve the so-called Red Line scheduled to open June 22.

Little idea. Anyone believe that? Titan. Just the name itself is enough to sway a jury!

[Tcmetro]

MnDot held a meeting about the proposed HOT lanes on Hwy 77 and improved access to the Cedar Grove Transit Center last night. The study will wrap up in 2014, when they will then seek funding for the project. 6 options were considered for access to the transit center. Some featured a SB platform on the shoulder side, with a pedestrian bridge to the existing NB station. NB buses would have a slip ramp to the station, with some sort of bridge or traffic signal at 13 to re-enter 77. One option was a T-ramp from the center; however, it would require a relocation of the station, and would require weaving by buses. It was explained to me that they are looking at having both bus shoulders (for BRT buses) and HOT lanes (for express buses). I didn't jot down the transit station options, but the HOT options are on the website.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... index.html

[stp1980]

On the website for this project, it is saying that the buses have card readers for fare collection. I was under the impression that if this was a METRO line, then it would be similar to the light rail system of pre-pay to expedite boarding? Maybe this has been covered, and yes the service will be better than it was before this line, but then why are we spending all the money on this line if we are not going to take it all the way?

[twincitizen]

The buses will have card readers (at front & back doors) because there will not be TVMs (ticket vending machines) at every single station. Only the major ones/transit centers, as I understood it.

Fingers crossed that the buses DO NOT have traditional fareboxes...

I assume the idea is that by putting the card reader on the bus, there will be more "social pressure" not to cheat the system. It's pretty obvious when you get on, if the GoTo "blue football" reader makes the correct BEEP. Also, I can't see transit police giving a lot of prioity to riding up and down the Red Line, checking fares, when they have the Blue & Green Lines to deal with.

I think they got it right...except for the interior bike racks...that's probably stupid.

[Tcmetro]

Won't they have to have fareboxes? How will you pay a cash fare at the smaller stations?

[twincitizen]

You won't. You'll have a GoTo card like every other decent human being living in the 21st Century.

(Note: buses may well have standard fareboxes, I am just hoping they don't. The correct thing to do would be to have a TVM at every station, but I swear I read that they won't)

[FISHMANPET]

One day while riding the bus with my wife I pointed out how stupid these people were that were paying cash fares or using paper monthly passes rather than getting a GoTo card. She works in adult basic education, and pointed out to me that a lot of people are literally too poor to scrape together the cash at one time for a GoTo Card ($10) and a monthly pass, or they have no credit card with which to put value on a card even if they could afford the card.

So as much as I love the idea of eliminating cash fares, there are transit dependent segments of the population whose daily lives are so alien that we can't even fathom the troubles something as simple as that would cause.

I think if we did something like when I first got my GoTo card, where if you put $20 on it the card was free, that would help a lot. Also, start selling them in corner stores and convenience stores all over the metro. I'm not sure what the situation is now, but when I first got my GoTo card (granted, it was 6 years ago when they were first available) I could only get one in Downtown Minneapolis, MOA, and maybe downtown St Paul, whereas monthly paper passes were everywhere.

[twincitizen]

Yes, I understand that having $10 at once would seem like a fortune to some folks. But this is the Red Line we're talking about, not the homeless living on the streets. How unlikely is it that someone would be boarding at these stations that was in that kind of financial predicament?

Plus, I looked it up, this is for 140th St and 147th St Stations only. The others will have TVMs. 140th and 147th will get them eventually.

[UptownSport]

You'll have a GoTo card like every other decent human being living in the 21st Century.

wow. Just wow

She works in adult basic education, and pointed out to me that a lot of people are literally too poor to scrape together the cash at one time for a GoTo Card ($10) and a monthly pass, or they have no credit card with which to put value on a card even if they could afford the card.

So as much as I love the idea of eliminating cash fares, there are transit dependent segments of the population whose daily lives are so alien that we can't even fathom the troubles something as simple as that would cause.

So glad for this- See this on the 2 midday, poor people in any sense of the word

[MNdible]

Somewhat related article from the Strib.

[QuietBlue]

Yes, I understand that having $10 at once would seem like a fortune to some folks. But this is the Red Line we're talking about, not the homeless living on the streets. How unlikely is it that someone would be boarding at these stations that was in that kind of financial predicament?

It's more likely than you would think. It's not just commuters who will use the line (and who use the buses that provide this service now); there are plenty of people of very limited means south of the river who will be using it as well. Plus, there are all the occasional riders who haven't necessarily planned for getting a card in advance too.

[Tcmetro]

There are poor people all over the metro. Certainly there is a concentration of poor people in the inner cities, however, regional policies have created (for better or for worse) public and section 8 housing in relatively transit-poor, unwalkable areas. Additionally suburban rentals are likely cheaper (on a quality/space metric), the majority of trailer parks are in the suburbs, and a significant number of low-wage jobs are in the suburbs.

The GoTo system lacks the mass of retail locations to simply add money to an account, and also requires a minimum deposit of $10 on the card. When the system has the ability to add one fare or a day pass, maybe then we can talk about eliminating the cash fare. That being said, I believe that the Met Council is actually studying an entire restructuring of the fare system and a new GoTo card technology that would be "open-payment" similar to Chicago's Ventra card.

[mulad]

There should be more vending machines like this one at the Mall of America. While this one requires $20 to start, there's little reason to believe they couldn't sell them at lower values in the future. I presume this issues a "hard" plastic card -- I'd heard a rumor of a more paper-like disposable card appearing at some point too.



Image link

There are a lot of grocery stores and convenience stores that allow you to add value to a Go-To card, though I've never gone that route. The biggest problem I ever had with Go-To was that those retailers couldn't replace my original card when it broke -- I had to go down to Metro Transit's office in downtown Minneapolis to get that done. But you only really need to do that if you care about retaining the leftover value on the original card and transferring it to the new one.

[LRV Op Dude]

I'd heard a rumor of a more paper-like disposable card appearing at some point too.

There is a GO-TO Lite that is a paper based GO-TO card.

[woofner]

Metro Transit's Interactive Map shows goto retailer locations (although at an inconveniently large scale). 5 years ago they were hard to find and there was a large minimum cost. Today they are at many grocery stores and check cashing places and the minimum is $5 (50 cents more than a rush hour daily commute).

I would like to see Metro Transit offer the 10% bonus on $5 value so the card costs the same as a two rush hour fares and come up with a timeline to remove fareboxes from all buses. This timeline would likely follow the deployment of all planned Rapid Bus routes, after which TVMs for buying and recharging GoTo cards will be convenient to the vast majority of riders. Social service providers can get GoTo cards for their clients using relatively cheap software, this shouldn't be an issue. So any social equity concerns about eliminating cash from the system are no longer valid; the efficiency gains however are still valid.