Red Line (Cedar Avenue BRT)

[Andrew_F]

Having tried to ride a city bus in Chicago I can say that it wasn't a very pleasant experience. First, I had no idea how much the fare was. Chicago has something confusing where bus fares are lower than subway fares but you have to pay to transfer and ??? I had a swipe card for the El but it only had $1.75 so I just dropped $3 into the machine and walked to the back of the bus with my friend because it was cold and I wanted to get back to my hotel.
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It is kind of confusing. $2 for bus, $2.25 for rail. Then there's a +$0.25 transfer fee for the first transfer on an active fare. So bus-bus, rail-rail, and rail-bus transfers are $0.25, while bus-rail transfers are $0.50. Then of course there are places where you can transfer for free between rail lines (some marked on the L maps, some not marked) by avoiding turnstyles, and then a few more places where the turnstyles don't charge you a transfer fee if you have an active rail fare. Of course, buses give neither change nor paper transfers, so if your farecard doesn't have enough value on it and you're making a trip with transfers, you're pretty screwed. Aaaand, it now costs $5 to board at Ohare.

But at least CTA doesn't bother with rush-period or express fares.

[VAStationDude]

I guess I don't care what strangers preceive my wealth or lack thereof to be. I've been fairly successful in my career (it's not in planning or real estate development) and take pride in that but really couldn't give two shits what my some guy who drives by me waiting for the bus thinks. I applaud that guy for at least admitting to his insecurities. He can over compensate with a big suv and guns and I'll continue not to concern myself with what others think.

[woofner]

Of course, this region *really* wants to build ridership with suburbanites

Why do you think this is true? I don't believe there are any goals with teeth at the regional or state level to develop good coverage in suburban areas. The TPP recommends suburban local service over a decent swath of the metro (TMA 3) but doesn't actually recommend more than a few additional routes through 2030, leaving most of the suburbs without service. While there are a few transitways in the pipeline in suburban areas, there aren't nearly enough to develop a regional system. It seems like we hear a lot less suburban politicians calling for projects in their district to bring home the bacon than we did 5 years ago. I'm hoping Thrive2040 changes things, but if it doesn't, there is literally no hope for decent suburban coverage in a metro area with some of the worst coverage in a transit-poor nation.

Conversely, most of the suburbs are dense enough to support some all-day local service. They're just missing two things: infrastructure allowing people to actually walk to the bus stop, and higher-speed service to accommodate existing patterns of travel that exist on a regional scale (the central cities are missing this too of course).

The Red Line seems like a decent first step towards the latter requirement, it's just a shame that a)they had to bribe the local communities with highway improvements to get it built, and b)that they call it BRT, which it certainly isn't.

[mattaudio]

Most suburban areas I've been to in other cities (Chicago, DC, Bay Area, etc) are much denser than our suburban areas because land values have always been higher. Thus they developed in a way that, while hostile to transit, was not nearly as hostile to transit as our suburban areas.

If we actually want to make suburban transit slightly more appealing, we need to stop throwing billions at competing infrastructure. http://capntransit.blogspot.com/2013/01 ... ng-by.html

[kellonathan]

I was at the Mall of America last night, and it was surely very easy to find the Red Line platform... (That was the only sign that says "Red Line" in the entire transit center.)

[LRV Op Dude]

I was at the Mall of America last night, and it was surely very easy to find the Red Line platform... (That was the only sign that says "Red Line" in the entire transit center.)

That is not correct there is a sign on the north end of the platform that says METRO Red Line with a arrow.

[kellonathan]

I thought I was being attentive, but apparently not!

[mattaudio]

Well with a sign like that, they can definitely say it's LRT on rubber tires.

[mulad]

Has anyone tried the Red Line since they started charging fares?

[Tcmetro]

Yes, I have. The few buses I have taken have had no more than nine passengers, and seem to average three or four throughout the day. Also reliability is an issue, there isn't enough layover time, especially at mall of America. Additionally, the ticket machines at apple valley are not in operation yet, so all cash fares have been taken at the front door.

Honestly this isn't too surprising, considering few people actually live within walking distance of the stations, and connecting buses have poor service.

[mattaudio]

I can't believe I drove on Cedar to visit someone living in a subdivision yesterday rather than riding the Red Line. I could even stop at a car dealership or muffler shop at the 147th St Station.

[kellonathan]

From MetCouncil's news release...

METRO RED LINE AVERAGES 800 RIDERS PER WEEKDAY

ST. PAUL – (July 24) – After three weeks of regular service, customers are boarding METRO Red Line buses an average of 798 times each weekday, and an average of about 450 times on weekend days. The new bus rapid transit (BRT) service, which operates along Cedar Avenue and Highway 77 from Apple Valley to the Mall of America, began on June 22 and is the first of its kind in the Twin Cities.

Average weekday ridership is forecast to reach 975 after the first full year of service, growing to 1,600 in 2017. The METRO Red Line provides additional options for those travelling the Cedar corridor and complements existing express bus and local connecting bus service.

“It’s encouraging to see solid METRO Red Line ridership during the earliest days of regular service,” said Pat Born, regional administrator for the Metropolitan Council. “Cedar is a strong corridor for commuters, and these early figures illustrate the additional demand for frequent, all-day service which the Red Line also provides.”

Promotional free rides were offered on the line from June 22 to 30. More than 1,000 people rode the line during these first days. Total ridership from June 22 through July 19 is nearly 22,000.

The Red Line offers 15-minute service for most of each weekday, and 30-minute service during evenings and weekends between the Apple Valley Transit Station and the Mall of America, where it connects to the METRO Blue Line (Hiawatha LRT). It also serves the 147th and 140th Street stations in Apple Valley and the Cedar Grove Transit Station in Eagan.

The METRO Red Line is a service of the Metropolitan Council, provided under contract by the Minnesota Valley Transit Authority (MVTA). It is funded in part by proceeds from the 5-county, metro-area sales tax administered by the Counties Transit Improvement Board.

[mattaudio]

So is that an average of about 10 people per bus? Wow! What a great investment!

[nate]

According to the Metro Transit schedule, there are 65 runs, each way, on a weekday. 130 runs, total.

6.13 riders/run.

[Tom H.]

What's the mode-share? 1%?

[kirby96]

...and the first week of 'over 1000' was free. That's prolly pulling the daily average up at least 100 riders a day. So call it 700/130 = 5.4 riders per vehicle. Now adjust for rush hour. My guess is lots of lonely drivers driving 100% empty vehicles. I know that happens on other lines as well, but as alluded to above, generally not with the same size investment? As I've thought re: Northstar, and now Red Line: Thank GOD Hiawatha went first.

[Tcmetro]

9 days of 1,000 riders per day would be 9,000 riders, plus the 13,000 for the 19 days of July giving the total of 22,000 riders. Meaning July averaged 684 riders per day. If you assume the weekends have only 400 riders per day, then the weekday average bumps up to 773.

With those revised numbers I came up with, that lowers the average load per bus to 5.94 riders per trip. A significant minority of riders are travelling between MOA and Cedar Grove for bus connections as well, so the actual ridership isn't much better than the 442 it replaced.

That being said, its only been operating for a month. If MVTA focuses on improving connections and expanding hours on local buses, then I think more people would use the Red Line. Also, expanding the 475 (Apple Valley - Minneapolis express) to run from 6 am to 10 pm, hourly, could be a smart move. Nobody wants to take the local bus to the Red Line to the Blue Line to get to the city.

[talindsay]

Funny to me how that Metro Transit press release makes it sound like a success to be celebrated. Hiawatha carries more people every 40 minutes (averaged over 24 hours) than this line carries in a day.

[Tcmetro]

Looks like the interior bike racks are going to be phased out (once the 147st St Station has a step for bikers from the platform to the roadway) and replaced with external racks on the front of the bus.

http://www.mvta.com/new_bike_racks_comi ... buses.html

[talindsay]

Looks like the interior bike racks are going to be phased out (once the 147st St Station has a step for bikers from the platform to the roadway) and replaced with external racks on the front of the bus.

http://www.mvta.com/new_bike_racks_comi ... buses.html

A "light rail-like" feature that clearly didn't pan out. When I rode it (on opening weekend) the internal bike racks were a PITA for everybody, including the cyclists. They work on the light rail for a variety of reasons, but mostly because the trains are wide and have lots of open space. At the end of the day, a bus is a bus, which means space has a real premium no matter what you try to do.