Duluth Housing News

[seanrichardryan]

Who knew? Duluth has a 1% vacancy rate.

http://www.northlandsnewscenter.com/new ... 45811.html

[Aville_37]

Duluth definitely could use some new housing stock. I can see the challenge of building on the hill though.

[mulad]

The slope would probably help with building underground parking in some cases, particularly if it's a north-facing building with alley access in the back (down-slope side). My apartment building in St. Paul makes use of topography like that to tuck a garage underneath.

Anyone know if their zoning rules allow auxiliary dwelling units? That can help a bit, though not as much as building good multi-unit housing. I was frustrated to see them quote a guy who suggested more single-family housing. Some of that will be needed, but Duluth likely faces the same problem that core cities in the metro area have experienced -- there simply hasn't been much investment in decent multi-family housing for decades.

[xandrex]

Duluth definitely could use some new housing stock. I can see the challenge of building on the hill though.

Honestly, I don't think you'd see a terrible amount of development in the Central Hillside neighborhood. A lot of Duluth sits on flat land (Western parts of Duluth, the east, and--of course--above the hill, where a lot of commercial development has been taking place near the mall and spilling into Hermantown) that pose no issues.

[MNdible]

There's a lot of land available in downtown Duluth just uphill from Superior Street that could easily be developed for housing, if there's an appetite for that. The resurgence of Old Downtown could make this more viable than it's been in a long time. There are a lot of people working at the hospitals that might appreciate living in the area. It's kind of rough around the edges in that part of town, though, so it will take somebody with some vision to make the leap.

[phop]

Duluth apparently needs ~4500 new housing units over the next six years to keep pace with the workforce:

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/conten ... ds-housing

[Nathan]

like

[grant1simons2]

But the Duluth population has stayed pretty steady since the 90s, why the need for it now?

[mattaudio]

There seems to be a glut of SFHs in Duluth. Plenty of homes under $100,000, last time I looked.

[Nathan]

the article says people are moving there for work. and if they don't have housing, companies will set up shop elsewhere

[mplsjaromir]

I spoke to some contractors in Duluth on Tuesday and they could only say how slow everything was business wise in the area. If there is any housing shortage (which I doubt) it is not because of an unwillingness or incapacity to build.

[mattaudio]

My guess is that, with the exception of certain neighborhoods near Downtown and UMD, there's not a lot of building going on because there's still tons of classic houses for sale in periphery neighborhoods... new construction can't compete on price. And there's not even a lot going on downtown or near UMD either.

How could neighborhoods with existing housing become more appealing? There are lots of neighborhoods that popped up around industry, such as all the nodes on Hwy 23 south of I-35. Would faster transit make these appealing neighborhoods?

[MNdible]

...such as all the nodes on Hwy 23 south of I-35. Would faster transit make these appealing neighborhoods?

In a word, no.

These neighborhoods have reputations that precede them. There's a reason that you can pick up a house in Gary on the cheap, and it's not because the commute is bad.

[Viktor Vaughn]

I'm also skeptical about this. I think there's very few neighborhoods in the Duluth area where you could build a new home and sell it for more than the cost of materials. Condo's built in the last boom had a terrible time selling.

In my opinion, the best way to add housing would be to build more student housing, even a dense, off-campus student housing district by the armory, as has been proposed. This would relieve pressure on the SFH neighborhoods.

The last thing this market needs is more Hermantown ticky tacky.

...such as all the nodes on Hwy 23 south of I-35. Would faster transit make these appealing neighborhoods?

In a word, no.

These neighborhoods have reputations that precede them. There's a reason that you can pick up a house in Gary on the cheap, and it's not because the commute is bad.

Yeah - Gary, New Duluth, Riverside, and Morgantown are perfect examples of what industrial company towns look like 30 - 40 years after those company town jobs have been off-shored. They have a legacy of poverty, disinvestment, and pollution. The homes of many of the pensioners who stabilized these neighborhoods are turning over, and it's not clear who will take their place. Hence, the mayors renewed focus on improving these neighborhoods prospects.

They do have some major upsides. Many of the homes and neighborhoods are remarkably well-kept and inexpensive. The cross-city trail will link up the Munger Trail with the Lakewalk, making a bike commute downtown a breeze. Spirit Mountain is nearby and will soon have a much more neighborhood accessible chalet on Grand Ave. The western hillside is stunningly rugged and gorgeous. It's traversed by the Superior Hiking Trail and a mountain biking trail. Ely's peak, right outside of Gary, is one of the most beautiful hikes in the midwest. Rock Climbers travel hundreds of miles to scale its cliffs. This winter I fulfilled a decade-long goal to snowshoe to the summit of Ely's peak (it took over 3 hours, breaking trail through deep snow) so I could snowboard down. The snow was several feet deep and it rivaled back country experiences I've had in the Rockies.

So these neighborhoods shouldn't be written of yet. That said, if I bought a house in Duluth it would be in the Central Hillside. I think the hillside and West End will gentrify before West Duluth.

[mattaudio]

If the old neighborhoods closer to town see higher demand and increasing prices, maybe it will push urban pioneers to these old nodes further down Grand. It seems like that would be a great plan to bring back those neighborhoods. From an outsider's perspective, they have great bones.

[xandrex]

My guess is that, with the exception of certain neighborhoods near Downtown and UMD, there's not a lot of building going on because there's still tons of classic houses for sale in periphery neighborhoods... new construction can't compete on price. And there's not even a lot going on downtown or near UMD either.

Downtown Duluth simply doesn't have the cachet that Downtown Minneapolis has (nor a particular hold on the area's employment). Growing up, it was mostly seen as run down and/or dangerous (Superior Street being a partial exception in certain areas). With commutes short anywhere in the area and already needing to own a car, why live in a small, expensive condo near an area you perceive as run down when you could live a very short distance away in a nice neighborhood in a larger place? Duluth might have a few urbanists interested in it (I certainly would if I moved back), but even the most ardent environmentalists weren't exactly about to trade their cars in for biking or DTA.

As for UMD, it's largely already surrounded by some of the more choice neighborhoods in the entire city. A lot of my "wealthier" friends who lived in the city weren't very far away from campus. But the campus largely remains a commuter campus, with a whole lot of area kids who choose UMD or St. Scholastica because, well, they're there.

The last thing this market needs is more Hermantown ticky tacky.

Full disclosure: I grew up in Hermantown.

I'm sort of curious what "ticky tacky" you're talking about. Hermantown had a mini boom during my childhood, but there really aren't all that many developments that popped up over the years. The few that could be described as ticky tacky still to this day struggle to sell many of their lots.

Hermantown is really more rural to fringe rural with some big-box spill over near Duluth. My family lives within city limits with 10 acres and can barely see the neighbors. That's not all that uncommon for many residents (okay, maybe the acreage, but incredibly wooded lots with a few acres where you can't see your neighbors definitely isn't). It just doesn't strike me as the suburban sprawl that typically comes to mind with the term ticky tacky.

[mulad]

Hermantown is one of the lowest-density "cities" in Minnesota, about 280 people per square mile (I think some folks use 500 people per square mile as a threshold for even calling an area "urbanized", and that's still really low). Looks like yet another township that decided to incorporate.

[xandrex]

Hermantown is one of the lowest-density "cities" in Minnesota, about 280 people per square mile (I think some folks use 500 people per square mile as a threshold for even calling an area "urbanized", and that's still really low). Looks like yet another township that decided to incorporate.

From what I understand, that's pretty much what the city did (it's almost a perfect square and roads are platted at about one mile intervals). They didn't want to be annexed by Duluth sometime in the late 70s, so they formed a city. For a long time, people in Duluth knew of it as sort of a dumpy rural area. Since the late 80s and 90s, it attracted a lot of people out of Duluth because it offered space and the school was performing better than Duluth Denfeld and Duluth Central, and comparable to Duluth East.

[Aville_37]

Surprised no one has posted anything about this. Pretty excited for this.

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/conten ... oad-duluth

[RailBaronYarr]

Seems nice, too bad about its location. Adjacent to a freeway, along a not-so-great road for pedestrians.. but great views and only a quarter mile to Superior St bus lines...