MPS Headquarters - (1250 West Broadway)

[min-chi-cbus]

Exactly! I've cleaned out many foreclosed homes in both NE and NoMi, and there's no comparison to the merchant-class quality that you find in many of these homes. The Northside has a truly impressive housing stock. It's just run down. Like this place: http://www.duallservices.com/cleaned-ho ... rack-house

And while North Minneapolis is the most notorious neighborhood for hundreds of miles around, it's not that bad. Compared to many struggling U.S. cities, MSP looks pretty appealing to all income levels.

And that must be why Minneapolis continues to see an influx of people from other Midwestern cities' poorest areas, like Gary, Flint, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, etc. That, and the general quality of living like education, parks and rec, and neighborhood programs that make Minneapolis a bargain compared to many other cities in the region.

I am a bit surprised that NoMi would have better housing stock than other parts of town though.....for one, NoMi has ALWAYS been a place for the middle and lower classes. Secondly, precious materials like copper and alluminum are being stripped left and right and I would have thought NoMi would be the epicenter of that action because it has the largest stock of foreclosed and vacant homes, and also because there is that criminal element that exists there in a stronger form than the rest of the metro.

[helsinki]

I am a bit surprised that NoMi would have better housing stock than other parts of town though.

Generally, we can assume that older housing stock in Minneapolis is better. Even the less well-to-do houses of yore. This house was built in 1922. Indeed, most of the houses in Minneapolis were built pre-war. Anything pre-war is going to have:

1. Hardwood floors throughout (even if carpet was added later, it is usually just on top of the original floors - many many homeowners have ripped this up and restored the original wood);

2.Tile floors in bathrooms and kitchens (sadly, if linoleum replaced it at some point, it may have been at the expense of the tile);

3. Stone fireplaces and brick chimneys; and

4. Heavy solid wood doors throughout (compared to the light particleboard doors found in many newer homes).

All of these materials are more durable, aesthetic (my opinion), and expensive than their replacements.

Most pre-war houses will also have maid's rooms, service doors, entryway alcoves, plaster crown molding, and wooden detailing generally not found nowadays.

In short, even if they're in a neighborhood perceived to be undesirable due to crime and poverty, the houses themselves will often be of superior quality to more expensive homes found in more desirable neighborhoods that were built in a later era.

[mattaudio]

I have some experience with the Near North neighborhood, some relatives were long time residents. They talked about how some of these old beautiful mansions had their furnishings stripped during the 80s-90s, and some even recently. Beautiful wood carvings, original fixtures, etc taken. Sort of sad.

[Nick]

Exactly! I've cleaned out many foreclosed homes in both NE and NoMi, and there's no comparison to the merchant-class quality that you find in many of these homes. The Northside has a truly impressive housing stock. It's just run down. Like this place: http://www.duallservices.com/cleaned-ho ... rack-house

And while North Minneapolis is the most notorious neighborhood for hundreds of miles around, it's not that bad. Compared to many struggling U.S. cities, MSP looks pretty appealing to all income levels.

And that must be why Minneapolis continues to see an influx of people from other Midwestern cities' poorest areas, like Gary, Flint, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, etc.

Does anyone know of any real evidence of this? I've certainly heard of it anecdotally, from paranoid conservatives as well as people who've moved from those areas to here themselves. I've looked a bit before and haven't seen anything concrete.

[helsinki]

Exactly! I've cleaned out many foreclosed homes in both NE and NoMi, and there's no comparison to the merchant-class quality that you find in many of these homes. The Northside has a truly impressive housing stock. It's just run down. Like this place: http://www.duallservices.com/cleaned-ho ... rack-house

And while North Minneapolis is the most notorious neighborhood for hundreds of miles around, it's not that bad. Compared to many struggling U.S. cities, MSP looks pretty appealing to all income levels.

And that must be why Minneapolis continues to see an influx of people from other Midwestern cities' poorest areas, like Gary, Flint, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, etc.

Does anyone know of any real evidence of this? I've certainly heard of it anecdotally, from paranoid conservatives as well as people who've moved from those areas to here themselves. I've looked a bit before and haven't seen anything concrete.

I think your skepticism is correct; in the aftermath of the tornado and foreclosure crises there has actually been an outflow of residents from the Northside (with the result that, despite an influx of residents into other parts of the city, the overall population of MPLS has not increased very much).

[Nick]

And that must be why Minneapolis continues to see an influx of people from other Midwestern cities' poorest areas, like Gary, Flint, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, etc.

Does anyone know of any real evidence of this? I've certainly heard of it anecdotally, from paranoid conservatives as well as people who've moved from those areas to here themselves. I've looked a bit before and haven't seen anything concrete.

I think your skepticism is correct; in the aftermath of the tornado and foreclosure crises there has actually been an outflow of residents from the Northside (with the result that, despite an influx of residents into other parts of the city, the overall population of MPLS has not increased very much).

I meant over decades, not necessarily recently. If my interpretation of various Strib/MinnPost/other comments is right, there's an impression among a lot of suburbanites and rural Minnesotans that someone filled up busses with Chicago and Detroit welfare recipients in the 80s and 90s and sent them here when assistance programs in those states were cut. I've never seen any really evidence to back it up.

[mattaudio]

Correct. The only evidence I've seen re bringing people to Mpls is that certain outstate MN counties/cities have sent their troublemakers to Minneapolis.

[sdbroom]

The "They bussed in 'those people' from Chicago" is wrong, factually unsupportable, and just the tired fantasies of people who don't know any better and don't want to know any better.

[helsinki]

Oh - yeah, that's just bizarre.


The Northside used to be the Jewish neighborhood, until the Jews largely moved as a community to St. Louis Park. The Great Migration (of blacks from the South to northern industrial cities prior to World War I) mostly bypassed Minneapolis. If wacky racist people start with the theorizing, it helps to point out that Minneapolis (the city, not the metro) is one of the least diverse cities in the US. Nevertheless, The Great Migration didn't pass MSP altogether (we did have industry, just not as much as Detroit and Chicago), which is why about 15% of the city is black - meaning that blacks have just as much historical claim to the city as Norwegians and Swedes.

[min-chi-cbus]

Exactly! I've cleaned out many foreclosed homes in both NE and NoMi, and there's no comparison to the merchant-class quality that you find in many of these homes. The Northside has a truly impressive housing stock. It's just run down. Like this place: http://www.duallservices.com/cleaned-ho ... rack-house

And while North Minneapolis is the most notorious neighborhood for hundreds of miles around, it's not that bad. Compared to many struggling U.S. cities, MSP looks pretty appealing to all income levels.

And that must be why Minneapolis continues to see an influx of people from other Midwestern cities' poorest areas, like Gary, Flint, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, etc.

Does anyone know of any real evidence of this? I've certainly heard of it anecdotally, from paranoid conservatives as well as people who've moved from those areas to here themselves. I've looked a bit before and haven't seen anything concrete.

I've personally met quite a few people myself and it makes the news all of the time, but I don't have any statistics per se. It's no real secret either.

[min-chi-cbus]

The "They bussed in 'those people' from Chicago" is wrong, factually unsupportable, and just the tired fantasies of people who don't know any better and don't want to know any better.

I'm not one of those people who say that. I am just saying that people willingly move to Minneapolis from other Midwest cities, not accusing the city or state of bussing them in for welfare and whatnot. My understanding actually is that many of the people arriving are fully employed and capable people just trying to find a better life. There is no racist undertones to my statement. As someone who lives in a mostly black neighborhood currently I'm not one who thinks that most/all poor African Americans don't work and just seek handouts.....that's more of a conservative suburban mindset.

We know this much: the black/African American population of the Twin Cities rose from about 180K in 2000 to 275K in 2010, and less than half of that was from immigration from Africa. Tie that together with personal encounters and anecdotes as well as news articles and it's pretty easy to fill in the blanks.

*Edit: Here's a migration map of Hennepin County from the US Census. It KIND OF tells the story:
http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/04/migrat ... load=39099

[Nathan]

That is an awesome map! It's really interesting to see that more people move to Hen and Ramsey Counties from Chicago than vice versa! A real shock.

[min-chi-cbus]

Yeah, and the maps shows the migration patterns for 2008 only. So the fact that Cook County (Chicago) sent over 1,000 people to Minneapolis in 2008 but we also lost about the same number. Those coming INTO Minneapolis earned on avg. $32K, while those LEAVING Minneapolis to Chicago earned on avg. $52K. That tells a lot I think!


Here's the newest version that has data for 2010:
http://www.forbes.com/special-report/20 ... ation.html

[sdbroom]

Those coming INTO Minneapolis earned on avg. $32K, while those LEAVING Minneapolis to Chicago earned on avg. $52K. That tells a lot I think!

Huh?

Using the link you posted:

"*From Hennepin County (Minneapolis), Minn. to Cook County (Chicago), Ill.*
Number of people: 980
Income per capita: *$32,600*
*From Cook County (Chicago), Ill. to Hennepin County (Minneapolis), Minn.*
Number of people: 1,080
Income per capita: *$44,100*"

The people moving from Cook County to Minnesota have a higher income than the people moving from Hennepin County to Cook County.

Let's take another example, Milwaukee:

"From Hennepin County (Minneapolis), Minn. to Milwaukee County (Milwaukee), Wisc.
Number of people: 196
Income per capita: $32,300
From Milwaukee County (Milwaukee), Wisc. to Hennepin County (Minneapolis), Minn.
Number of people: 280
Income per capita: $27,200"

This could serve as an example of this supposed migration of service-seekers, but it's not much of a sample.

Detroit:
"From Hennepin County (Minneapolis), Minn. to Wayne County (Detroit), Mich.
Number of people: 51
Income per capita: $16,000
From Wayne County (Detroit), Mich. to Hennepin County (Minneapolis), Minn.
Number of people: 74
Income per capita: $32,600"

[sdbroom]

We know this much: the black/African American population of the Twin Cities rose from about 180K in 2000 to 275K in 2010, and less than half of that was from immigration from Africa. Tie that together with personal encounters and anecdotes as well as news articles and it's pretty easy to fill in the blanks.

As they say on the internets: *CITATION PLEASE*

[min-chi-cbus]

We know this much: the black/African American population of the Twin Cities rose from about 180K in 2000 to 275K in 2010, and less than half of that was from immigration from Africa. Tie that together with personal encounters and anecdotes as well as news articles and it's pretty easy to fill in the blanks.

As they say on the internets: *CITATION PLEASE*

Cited by the US Census Bureau 2010. If you want details you're going to have to find them yourself...or you can try asking in a different way.

I'm not sure what to tell you about the county data you think I got wrong. For the 2008 map it CLEARLY has Cook County and Hennepin County with the stats I provided.....perhaps you were looking at the 2010 map. Either way, I'm not sure what your point is trying to debunk everything I'm saying, especially when I DID cite that source!

It sounds like you deny that this phenomenon is taking place?

[sdbroom]

Cited by the US Census Bureau 2010. If you want details you're going to have to find them yourself...or you can try asking in a different way.

I did, and you're wrong. The African American/Black population of the state of Minnesota is 275K, not the African American/Black population of the metropolitan area. The distinction is valid, and important. Further, your comment in the first place seems to assume that the increase in the African American population would come from immigration, as opposed to natural population growth.

[min-chi-cbus]

Cited by the US Census Bureau 2010. If you want details you're going to have to find them yourself...or you can try asking in a different way.

I did, and you're wrong. The African American/Black population of the state of Minnesota is 275K, not the African American/Black population of the metropolitan area. The distinction is valid, and important. Further, your comment in the first place seems to assume that the increase in the African American population would come from immigration, as opposed to natural population growth.

You're right, it's state population, not metro. But 90%+ of the population lives within the 7 country metro area.

YOU are wrong....I JUST checked it! The 2008 map, mind you, and I clicked on Hennepin County and moused over Cook County (do you know where that is?). I'd "print screen" it but I can't figure out how to show that on this site.

And yes, I am "going out on a limb" by saying that the increase of 95K (or 50%) over 10 years is not natural birth/death increase. I guess I'm just wreckless like that.

[sdbroom]

You're right, it's state population, not metro. But 90%+ of the population lives within the 7 country metro area.

Fair enough.

YOU are wrong....I JUST checked it! The 2008 map, mind you, and I clicked on Hennepin County and moused over Cook County (do you know where that is?). I'd "print screen" it but I can't figure out how to show that on this site.

You are correct in regards to the 2008 map-- I looked at the 2011 map, the one you posted at the bottom of your comment.

And your patronizing little comeback would be charming-er if I hadn't copied and pasted the newer statistics from Cook County up there. So, yeah I do know where Cook County is, thanks for your concern amigo.

And yes, I am "going out on a limb" by saying that the increase of 95K (or 50%) over 10 years is not natural birth/death increase. I guess I'm just wreckless like that.

You failed at math, and your own self-proclaimed statistics here.

Have a good night.

[min-chi-cbus]

So your point is....................what? You don't have a position in this argument, aside from that I am wrong, and yet you can't prove it. Besides, it's conjecture. I'd love to know what the actual statistics are but I can't seem to find them. Perhaps you can spend your time and energy doing that?

Oh, and sorry, I meant 52.77777777777777777777777777778%. That would be the increase from 275 over 180. I don't know where I got 50% from. There I go being wreckless again!!