University of Minnesota - News & General Topics

[RailBaronYarr]

I guess I'm not convinced it's a very good comparison. The dorms are certainly not the least expensive option for student living. That would, of course, be to live with your parents, something that used to be very common, less so now.

Disagree. Maybe at a school like the U where commuting became commonplace partly because of university policy. But nation-wide, living on/near campus represents the vast majority of student situations, with very few living with parents. Now and historically.

The dorms are really designed to be a transition between fully dependent living and partially independent living. As a result, the price includes a lot of supervision, social interaction, meal plans, etc. I wouldn't recommend living in the dorms for one's entire university experience (and I doubt that many do), but I think that for a freshman student, it's a very good deal for what you get.

Sure, and the off-campus lu*ury apartments include other things not in the dorms as well. We can debate what's a deal and what represents a good situation for a transitionary situation for young students, but the comparison at a base level for housing is still fair. I'd also say a place that doesn't kick you out (with no access) for a month and then again for 3 months represents an inconvenience that is worth discussing.

I'm also skeptical that many students living on their own really eat for $5 a day -- that would get you about 2/3 of a burrito at Chipotle, no soda.

Why compare eating out? I already pointed out that students in dorms with mandatory meal plans are already eating out. Especially since the meal plan cited is likely the minimum plan (2 meals per day), leaving a student with no kitchen looking for food prepared by someone else (hence my point that at least in Floco or whatever you at least have the option of cooking a cheap third meal). I claimed non-eating-out food for students with kitchens is likely $150-200/mo, so $5-6.66 a day (way to use the low end). I'd say a Lean Cuisine with a glass of milk and some pasta for dinner and a soda at home could easily be had for 1 person for $6/day. Or a bowl of cereal and an english muffin for breakfast, (Jimmy John's for lunch) and a $3.50 frozen pizza (yes, all of it) for dinner.

[FISHMANPET]

Mmmm college. You're making me hungry.

[MNdible]

Sigh. You're so right. Of course you are. The dorms are a terrible deal and luxury apartments are a great deal.

Move along.

[xandrex]

Sure, and the off-campus lu*ury apartments include other things not in the dorms as well. We can debate what's a deal and what represents a good situation for a transitionary situation for young students, but the comparison at a base level for housing is still fair. I'd also say a place that doesn't kick you out (with no access) for a month and then again for 3 months represents an inconvenience that is worth discussing.

Minor quibble, but not all dorms kick you out (I lived in Centennial when I first came to the U, and I was permitted to stay). I didn't really care since I was going home. But being kicked out isn't really a dorm thing per se, but a University of Minnesota policy. I spent my freshman year elsewhere and we were allowed to stay in our dorms over the break if we liked for a nominal fee. It was something like $50. It wasn't bad. At all.

The benefit of dorms being by semester also means that when summer comes around and you, as a student, want to vacate to your parents' house (as so many do), you don't have to deal with finding a sublet. You don't have to haul huge amount of furniture. And if you do want to stay in the area, there are endless Craigslist posts with students leaving for home or internship desperate to have you pay their rent during the summer.

For me as a non freshman coming to the U, I chose the dorms the first year because finding an apartment in what was the "big city" represented a daunting notion. Easing in, I had a building that I knew was safe, it was easily bundled into my student expenses, I had easy access to campus, and it gave me a year to figure out my surroundings and what was actually AROUND campus. Having a single in a quiet dorm didn't hurt, either. And in a way, it made me more of an urbanist. If I had lived off campus, I would almost certainly have had a car. With the U's parking lottery and high monthly fees, I decided against it and relied on bus, bike, and foot for a year. It was great as I learned a lot about the city and how to not be so dependent on my car.

[Nick]

Sigh. You're so right. Of course you are. The dorms are a terrible deal and luxury apartments are a great deal.

Move along.

Well, that wasn't really my original point. I was just pointing out that living in Floco is comparable to living in Territorial, price-wise, and neither seem like a great deal, price-wise, for a 19 year old, but I think in one case it's a lot clearer why it costs as much as it does.

[go4guy]

I guess I'm not convinced it's a very good comparison. The dorms are certainly not the least expensive option for student living. That would, of course, be to live with your parents, something that used to be very common, less so now.

Can you imagine the uproar from some on this board if we suggest students commute from their parents home in Minnetonka to campus every day?

[exiled_antipodean]

Disagree. Maybe at a school like the U where commuting became commonplace partly because of university policy. But nation-wide, living on/near campus represents the vast majority of student situations, with very few living with parents. Now and historically.

Hard to tell how close students are living, but nationally and historically across *all* undergraduates about 40% are living with parents. I'm away from a computer so just tabulated this online using ipad.

https://flic.kr/p/ndERt1


(This is using IPUMS census data SDA online tabulator)

[EOst]

Sigh. You're so right. Of course you are. The dorms are a terrible deal and luxury apartments are a great deal.

Move along.

Well, that wasn't really my original point. I was just pointing out that living in Floco is comparable to living in Territorial, price-wise, and neither seem like a great deal, price-wise, for a 19 year old, but I think in one case it's a lot clearer why it costs as much as it does.

Let's assume that you can get half of a bedroom in one of the luxury buildings for $600 a month. Most of the places I've heard people talking about cost a bit more than that, but let's say that's a reasonable baseline.

Over a 12-month lease, we're already at $7200 for rent alone. Budget $10 for daily food and activities (we can argue about this number, but I'm a poor graduate student and that's about how much I budget) and that's an additional $3650. That's $10850, assuming conservative numbers. If we're using RailBaronYarr's number of ~$800, that's $9600 for rent==$13250. This is assuming no additional costs for parking, utilities, increased temptation to eat out due to need to cook, etc.

Whereas, say, if you put a kid in the dorms with a meal plan and give him $1000 for semester expenses, you're still coming out well ahead of both of these.

You have to be really creative to make these apartments a better deal, financially, than the dorms. That isn't to say there aren't reasons for students to move into them--but I think if a student is financing a room in Floco on debt, he's insane.

[RailBaronYarr]

Disagree. Maybe at a school like the U where commuting became commonplace partly because of university policy. But nation-wide, living on/near campus represents the vast majority of student situations, with very few living with parents. Now and historically.

Hard to tell how close students are living, but nationally and historically across *all* undergraduates about 40% are living with parents. I'm away from a computer so just tabulated this online using ipad.

https://flic.kr/p/ndERt1


(This is using IPUMS census data SDA online tabulator)

I would make a strong bet that this represents where students report their permanent residence rather that their actual temporary one. For example, most people from out of state keep their outstate license throughout school, have major bills sent to their parent's place, etc because they move in/out of dorms or hop from one apartment to another, etc. By the logic in the census report, only 49% of undergrads report themselves living as head of household, with a friend/partner/visitor, or other non-relative (the only applicable categories for dorm/apartment/college house living as near as I can tell). That seems low.

[go4guy]

I grew up in northern Minnesota, and used my parents address me entire time I was at the U.

Also, I am willing to be those numbers are skewed by community colleges and tech schools where most students tend to be from that area and live at home. Not really the case with larger universities.

[mattaudio]

I always thought the vast majority of undergraduate colleges had residency requirements. Most require people to live on campus their freshman and sophomore year, and some now require on-campus or "approved" off-campus residency for four years.

[web]

The U of M not letting people live with their parents??? wow what a change!

[go4guy]

I always thought the vast majority of undergraduate colleges had residency requirements. Most require people to live on campus their freshman and sophomore year, and some now require on-campus or "approved" off-campus residency for four years.

I think that may only be private colleges. I have never heard of a public college require any residency. I didnt live in the dorms after 1 month at the U and lived in an apartment near campus after that. When I told the U, they simply said "OK" and then deposited my prepaid room and board into my checking account. It was never an issue. I know a few freinds who didnt live in dorms at various other state schools. But private institutions are different. My buddy had to tell Concordia College in Moorhead that he had to live at home is 2nd year, as they required 2 years in the dorms. His mother had to fill out a form as well.

[mister.shoes]

My private college was 2 + 2 when I was there. I stayed on campus all four years. My little brother went off campus for his second two. In the years since he graduated, they've converted to requiring living on campus all four years absent special circumstances. Needless to say, the owners of the various party houses in town were none-too-pleased with the new requirements.

[Wedgeguy]

That might have something to do with the neighborhoods around them. I know St. Thomas in St. Paul has had several issues with neighbors and the ability to house students off campus,due to students lack of respect for their neighbors.

[talindsay]

Also, I am willing to be those numbers are skewed by community colleges and tech schools where most students tend to be from that area and live at home. Not really the case with larger universities.

Yes, I was thinking that 2-year colleges could have a pretty substantial impact on those numbers too.

If there had been a census year while I was in college I don't know how I would have answered, but I will say that when it occurred to me my senior year that I could get a WI license and claim my dorm as my residence for tax and voting purposes it felt like I was doing something subversive and questionable - that's how strongly the idea was set that students' permanent address is their parents' house. I doubt I would have reported my dorm as my residence before my senior year.

[exiled_antipodean]

Students are meant to be enumerated at their usual term-time residence, since they spend most of the year there. Whether that's done accurately is a good question, and Census Bureau are trying to address what could be over(double)counting by parents writing in absent college students.

Saying you are resident somewhere for mail/permanent address purposes is in no way incompatible with also really residing in off-campus housing.

Two year students are probably more likely to live at home, but I think the larger issue this discussion reveals is our massive cultural bias towards idea that "vast majority" of students live away from their parents. That is a middle class phenomenon. Many of the colleges in the metro area are well placed for commuting by transit from mom & dads.

[twincitizen]

https://flic.kr/p/nw3e2w

¿Que es esto?

[Silophant]

I've been wondering that myself. I had occasion last week to dash out of STSS to try to catch a 16 or 50 downtown ASAP, and was disheartened to find that there wasn't a walkway there anymore.

[FISHMANPET]

I assume it's being replaced. From that angle it looks like they might make the ground level more pedestrian friendly as well.