The Marshall - (515 14th Avenue Southeast)

[woofner]

Proposal to tear down 90-year-old landmark UTEC building in Dinkytown and replace it with an enormous amount of housing and retail - 337 units and almost 40k sq ft commercial.

In the Planning Commission CoW:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/meetings/p ... S1P-094557

[mnmike]

I wouldn't actually be sad to see that building go...it's not in very good shape, has been modernized in a bad 1980s kind of way, and we have plenty of old former school buildings like that in the area that have been re-used already. Usually I hate to see old buildings go...but this one doesn't do a lot for me, it has clones all over the city. Just my opinion.

[mplser]

I really like the size of this project, but I think they should have someone come in and salvage the architectural bits and pieces that can be used elsewhere.

also, any estimates on how tall it might be based on the stats we have here? or is it too vague?

[MNdible]

I can't get behind this project at all. Don't trash a nice building with really good bones that could be around for another hundred years for another stick-built crap box. And this strikes me as being a really inappropriate place for this scale of retail. I can see some small storefronts on 5th Street, but 40k sf? That's way too much for this location.

Keep the school building, redevelop the parking lot. Call it a day, don't get greedy.

[mplser]

keeping the building and redeveloping the parking lot, or building on top of the existing building and leave the parking lot for future development would both be better choices

[mulad]

Hmm. I don't see any details yet on the Minneapolis website -- I thought I'd heard that there would be an attempt to "wrap" the building, since it has some pretty big setbacks, though I'm not sure about how that would work for floor widths. Parts of the old building would still probably have to go.

Yeah, those parking lots on the west side look promising for development, though I wonder how much of that land might be owned by the neighboring church.

Anyone know when 13th Avenue SE was removed from that block?

[woofner]

historicaerials.com shows 13th Ave intact in a '66 image but vacated by their next imagery date in '79. Interestingly, only the portion of the parking lot owned by the church had been constructed by that time - the south 2/3 is vacant.

I'll confess that my prediction of demolition is drawn almost entirely from the fact that CoW states 'new building.' If I remember correctly the discussion we both had with the anonymous gentleman who was privy to the developer's plans, he indicated that they'd looked at wrapping it but thought it more feasible to demolish.

I'd think the ideal would be to build parking into the structure and maybe filled into the courtyard, but I doubt you could end up with 300 units that way.

[Konante]

I can't get behind this project at all. Don't trash a nice building with really good bones that could be around for another hundred years for another stick-built crap box.

Another multi-colored cookie cutter P.O.S. proposal. I hate this project.

[mplser]

how do you know the design already?

[Konante]

how do you know the design already?

Story here: http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... using.html

[woofner]

It's about what I'd expect and actually very effectively captures our era's general intellectual bankruptcy.

Very depressing, though, to see no trace of the neighborhood landmark it's replacing. Hopefully some alumnus of Marshall High School did something notable once and there can be a preservation battle. There appears to be an old website that lists surviving alumni (and their email addresses!):

http://www.marshallhighschool.org/

Just glancing, I didn't see any world champion pinochle players, but you never know...

[mnmike]

It's funny, usually the buildings I am upset about losing others don't care about, and in this case it is the opposite. I used to walk by this everyday...it is not in good shape, and there are many buildings...some still in use as schools, others that have been re-used, just like it all over the city. Walking by it, it is really nothing special IMO. Not ornate or anything, and as I said before, has been poorly remodeled in decades past. If it were anything like The Blake school in Kenwood, then I would be sad.

[go4guy]

I agree with mnmike. I walked by this building almost every day for 4 years, and never thought anything of it. And I am a guy that loves history. The building does nothing for me, and always thought it was a waste of a prime location.

[mulad]

Yeah, I'm pretty much in the same boat with mnmike and go4guy. Maybe I'd feel a bit different if the site hadn't been encroached upon by parking lots to the extent it has been. I do find it a bit strange how older schools were often put on grassy plots, set relatively far back from the street -- kind of the "tower in the park" of their day. It's fine if the landscaping is good, but that's not/no longer the case here.

I am growing tired of the architecture of the proposed replacement -- do we have a name for that? It's kind of modernist, but more fine-grained in its square-edginess. I do like how it's not going to be a complete monolith, like many other projects are, but it's still pretty big. There does seem to be at least one pedestrian alley extending back from the plaza area in that second rendering, though. It's all pretty random, though -- I'd probably prefer something where are several individual cohesive buildings built in somewhat different styles. I get the feeling that the architects are getting pretty bored and are just splattering balconies here and there...

[Nick]

This is on the August 27th CPC meeting agenda with recommended approval and some detailed site plans. This sucker is biiiiiiig...if it turns out badly it sure is gonna stick out on the edge of Dinkytown. Kinda like the Chateau but you'll be able to see it without looking up. They're not reopening 13th Avenue Southeast. And I wonder what grocery would go in there. Maybe some kind of co-op?

[MNdible]

Ugh. This should be stopped in its tracks. Knocking down a higher quality building than what they're replacing it with. No more projects larger than a city block -- no more super blocks. I wasn't necessarily expecting that they'd reopen 13th to cars, but not even providing a pedestrian access path through the site? Bad. Bad site design.

[MNdible]

And what ever happened to City staff pushing for improved site design and questioning what developers put in front of them? Have they all been told to just roll over and accept whatever will maximize developer profits? I'm not anti-development, but there should be some give and take on these things.

[seanrichardryan]

When residents do that, we label them Nimbys and tell them to move out of the neighborhood.

[mplser]

When residents do that, we label them Nimbys and tell them to move out of the neighborhood.

exactly. I don't really see what everyone is complaining about. Sure, it could be better, and sure the building that is on that site is somewhat architecturally significant, but There are many buildings like it around the city. I think this could turn out to be great.

[seanrichardryan]

Exactly? This project looks bigger than the Penfield in downtown Saint Paul, and way overscale for Dinkytown.