Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis (cancelled)

[acs]

Because they're going to ask MLS for more time:

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/m ... -time.html

[Didier]

Glen Taylor was quoted on MPR this morning saying they were going to ask for an extension also.

[nfschauer]

I wonder if they got that extension, and for how long.

[acs]

Feet, meet fire. I can't say I'm terribly surprised though. St. Paul is a city that doesn't dick around when it sets its sights on economic development. Coleman and especially the port authority have no qualms about using public money either. It's the ultimate leverage. Your move Betty.

http://www.startribune.com/soccer-stadi ... 311308471/

[Nick]

St. Paul is a city that doesn't dick around when it sets its sights on economic development.

Actual lol

[acs]

What? They stepped in and used their own money to rescue the penfield and the port authority plays a more active role in development than any Minneapolis agency. They need to, and I think Coleman knows that.

As a side note, it's interesting that the ownership group is semi-seriously considering hopping the river as their second choice. Throughout the yearlong lead up to this the only other site that was mentioned was in Bloomingtons south loop.

[Didier]

I still don't understand what Minneapolis thinks its leverage is at this location. Is the idea really that if we wait, some alternate development will fill in this armpit between a freeway and a massive parking ramp with some apartments that pay full property taxes?

What's ironic is that this location was identified long before the MLS efforts as an ideal spot for the Vikings stadium. When that fell through the advocacy group pitched the idea to the soccer team, because it's really an ideal location for a big entertainment complex and little else. Now the team is ready to put $130 million into a stadium here and the city is only in the last few days even acknowledging the idea.

[Daboink]

The difference now is that there isn't an R.T. Rybak to champion ideas like this when they have seen the positives that can come from a little bit (or a lot) of civic assistance. Yes, building stadiums is most likely a money losing proposition for governments, but in this day and age it's part of encouraging a happy populace (debatable to what degree). Saint Paul saw what happened when Minneapolis dragged its feet on the Wild, so it only makes sense that they would attempt to step up. I'm sure Sears would love to sell their land and rebuild in a different place/layout nearby. Time to move this to the Saint Paul thread??

[bermanp7]

Yes, building stadiums is most likely a money losing proposition for governments

We don't need to lose any more money to major league sports. We (not just locally but nationally) don't need a fifth major league sport. Personally, I'm frightened at the prospect. If government says Yes once to helping out MLS, then MLS has its hands in the community's pockets forever. These deals seem to never, ever turn out as rosy as they look in advance.

If there are examples of pro sports stadium deals that have held up under the scrutiny of economists, I'd be interested to see them. Have the Royalston plans been subjected to such scrutiny? Are there any economists out there who are saying, "Usually I'm skeptical of sports stadium deals, but Minneapolis is looking at a rare winner here?"

Regarding another previous comment: Does everyone agree that the site is an "armpit?" I'd be especially interested in formal studies of the site and its prospects. Granting for the sake of argument that it is an "armpit," then what will it be if a stadium is built...an armpit with a stadium? Are the prospects for spurring further development any better than they were with (e.g.) Chester, PA? http://mobile.philly.com/news/?wss=/phi ... =305544301

[Nathan]

I'm totally in favor of it going at Snelling and 94. I think that's perfect. In the middle of the cities, on the green line, close to the U (and other unies) a large fan base (I'm assuming) easy to get to by interstate, near lots of bars and restaurants...

[Wedgeguy]

I'm totally in favor of it going at Snelling and 94. I think that's perfect. In the middle of the cities, on the green line, close to the U (and other unies) a large fan base (I'm assuming) easy to get to by interstate, near lots of bars and restaurants...

At this point there are not a lot of bars and sit down restaurants in the area. Most are fast food, or Perkins, I think Hot Rods maybe a bar that is still open across University that would be within walking distance. But there are a lot of restaurants along the green line. Just not with in close proximity of the Stadium if it were to get built on the old bus garage lot off Snelling and 94. Even the Vintage would be a 5-6 block walk after walking across the freeway.

Neighborhood retail nodes could have a chance if they can figure out how to market to the soccer fans that travel in to see the games. But parking would be an issue unless they can figure out some form of shared parking in the area.

[David Greene]

God, the LAST thing we need to worry about for this is parking. We've got major transit corridors in almost every cardinal direction now with numerous park and rides. This won't draw the numbers of a Vikings game and many people should/will use transit to get there.

[Wedgeguy]

God, the LAST thing we need to worry about for this is parking. We've got major transit corridors in almost every cardinal direction now with numerous park and rides. This won't draw the numbers of a Vikings game and many people should/will use transit to get there.

There will be many fans coming from the north, east, and south that will not have very good transit options. Not everyone has a bus or train line as their primary option. Who from Eagan, Apple Valley are going to take the red line, to the blue line, to the green line so that can get to a soccer game. How much time would they sacrifice to do that when driving would be much easier and a lot quicker. Same goes for other burbs. While the green line and hopefully the BRT line on Snelling will help make for a transit oriented stadium. This spot is not at a transit cross roads by any means. Sorry, just stating the obvious, as the obvious is what a majority of the population does, drives themselves to events.

[mamundsen]

If this does move to the Snelling & 94/University area or the Sears site in St Paul, do we need to rename the Green Line the "Stadium Line"?

Think about it... West to East we have: Target Field, Target Center (short walk, within view from the platform), USBank Stadium, U of M (TCF Bank Stadium, the Barn & Mariucci are short walk from 2 stations), MLS Soccer Stadium, Xcel Center (longest walk of 4-5 blocks) ending at CHS Field.

EDIT: I suppose this is true if it stays in MPLS too. Just joins the Target duo on the west end.

[Silophant]

I wonder if there's any other metropolitan area that's managed to put all of its major sports facilities within 5 blocks of a single transit line?

[David Greene]

There will be many fans coming from the north, east, and south that will not have very good transit options. Not everyone has a bus or train line as their primary option. Who from Eagan, Apple Valley are going to take the red line, to the blue line, to the green line so that can get to a soccer game.

I can totally see people parking at 28th Ave. (NOT MOA <snicker>) and riding Blue/Green.

Westerly people will be able to park at Shady Oak. Easterly people will be able to take Gold/Green. North is really the most problematic.

I have no doubt a district parking ramp will be built eventually, I'm just saying it's not anywhere near the biggest concern.

[HiawathaGuy]

I will say that if St. Paul does get the new stadium, specifically at Snelling. They should use this opportunity to work on the Snelling/University intersection. Even if 75% of fans ride transit there - the need to deal with the cars and pedestrians at that intersection and surrounding ones will be even more critical. It's a center platform on the Green Line, that does not bode well for thousands of people getting to and from the new stadium when traffic is bad enough already. This *could* be the catalyst for Snelling to dip under University or something along those lines. I could be dreaming - but one would think this would be a very hard intersection to make work for all those transit riders and car drivers.

[holmstar]

I can totally see people parking at 28th Ave. (NOT MOA <snicker>) and riding Blue/Green.

Westerly people will be able to park at Shady Oak. Easterly people will be able to take Gold/Green. North is really the most problematic.

I have no doubt a district parking ramp will be built eventually, I'm just saying it's not anywhere near the biggest concern.

Let's see: Two 3 car trains (one going each way) at 270 people per car = 1620 people per 10 minutes (unless they bring in extra trains). If say 50% of attendees took the train, it would take an hour for everyone to get on a train after the game. There WILL need to be plenty of parking available. People don't want to wait an hour to leave, or even a half hour.

[Wedgeguy]

A major plus is the land is owned by a government entity so there are not taxes that are being paid on it at this time, to the best of my knowledge. That takes care of the no property tax question. Maybe that will finally make redeveloping the Midway Shopping Center a reality and St. Paul/ Ramsey county can see a greater increase in the property taxes surrounding the stadium. I see more of a likely hood that development would happen here at Snelling than near Royalston. A district parking ramp can be tucked back away from the main drags, behind the buildings but next to the stadium, so that development will front the streets and maybe get some street grid going through the area too. Get some retail and residential worked in together would make that area a lot more attractive.

[Mikey]

If you are truly concerned about parking, the Sears site seems better. There are plenty of existing ramps at the Capitol complex

...if the state would share them, of course