Sunday Liquor Sales and other Beer/Liquor Legislation

[twincitizen]

Actually, gpete is correct. There is a MN municipal liquor association that lobbies on their behalf and is adamantly opposed to Sunday sales, wine in grocery stores, etc.

The following is a summary of 2013 legislative action from their newsletter. If I can find their position paper on Sunday sales specifically, I will share that.

SUNDAY SALES
On May 1, 2013, the Minnesota House
debated and passed the Omnibus
Liquor bill. Two amendments were
offered which related to allowing liquor
stores to sell off-sale on Sundays. First,
Representative Tina Liebeling (DFLRochester)
offered an amendment to allow for the off-sale
of alcohol on Sunday with the exception of Christmas Day.

Next, Representative Phyllis Kahn
(DFL-Minneapolis) offered an amendment
to the Liebeling amendment that
would require liquor stores to be closed
one day of week and the liquor store
may choose the day of the week.
Representative Kahn indicated that she was
offering the amendment in response
to what she had heard from liquor store
owners that allowing Sunday sales
would spread six days of sales over
seven days. The Kahn Amendment failed 5-122.

The Liebeling Amendment to allow for
Sunday sales failed 21-106.
Speaking on behalf of liquor stores
were Representatives Atkins, Daudt,
Barret, Gruenhagen, and O’Driscoll.
The Teamsters, Minnesota Family
Council, and Beer Wholesalers sent
letters opposing Sunday sales as well.
This was a very good win. The strong
opposition will make it harder for the
legislature to bring it up next year. The
Senate held a brief hearing on the bill
to allow Sunday sales of liquor, but did
not vote on the issue this session.

[talindsay]

Wow. Well, good to know that Phyllis Kahn and I are breathing through the same nostril on the issue.

[woofner]

I wonder how the state auditor missed this group? Oh, it's because they're actually funded by booze companies, not municipalities. Hit page down twice on their home page for the list of 64 funders, the vast majority of which are beer, wine, or liquor companies.

Their board is composed of Muni employees, so undoubtedly they reflect the interests of the Munis, but I think it's an exaggeration to credit them for the continued defeat of Sunday sales or liquor in big box store bills. Anyway I highly doubt their budget comes anywhere near the MLBA's.

[talindsay]

Because life is complex, I want to point out that Sunday liquor sales and other alcohol legislation (such as allowing grocery store sales) should *not* be tied together if there's an urge to improve our laws. Support for any single topic may be hard to wrangle, but it will be easier by tackling each issue separately.

Personally, I want Sunday liquor sales but I'm against grocery / convenience sales - Sunday liquor ban is a violation of separation of church and state and not within the state's purview; but consumers get a much better selection of products because of the ban on grocery / convenience sales, and I don't support the race to the bottom of stores competing on price for mass-market light beers that would occur with broader sales.

I suspect there are a variety of takes on the various issues, but focusing narrowly on the Sunday liquor sales issue would be much more likely to succeed than attempts to tie issues together.

[gpete]

Woofner, just for the record, you don't have to hire a lobbyist to be effective at lobbying the legislature. Many of the legislators hear about the interests of municipally-owned liquor stores from town mayors, local meetings etc. Sure, the small towns aren't hiring high-priced lobbyists, but their voice is heard very loudly at the Capitol. That's lobbying; it's about influencing legislation.

[FISHMANPET]

Because life is complex, I want to point out that Sunday liquor sales and other alcohol legislation (such as allowing grocery store sales) should *not* be tied together if there's an urge to improve our laws. Support for any single topic may be hard to wrangle, but it will be easier by tackling each issue separately.

Personally, I want Sunday liquor sales but I'm against grocery / convenience sales - Sunday liquor ban is a violation of separation of church and state and not within the state's purview; but consumers get a much better selection of products because of the ban on grocery / convenience sales, and I don't support the race to the bottom of stores competing on price for mass-market light beers that would occur with broader sales.

I suspect there are a variety of takes on the various issues, but focusing narrowly on the Sunday liquor sales issue would be much more likely to succeed than attempts to tie issues together.

There are still plenty of standalone liquor stores in Wisconsin, even though you can get hard liquor at convenience stores.

Though I agree there's no reason to tie the two issues together.

[woofner]

Woofner, just for the record, you don't have to hire a lobbyist to be effective at lobbying the legislature.

I'm not saying that's not true, and I don't think that state legislatures are as corrupted with corporate money as Congress. But the state of MN still boasts more than 1300 registered lobbyists and a lobbying industry of around $60m/year. It seems likely to me that the voices of the Clontarfs and Walsdorfs of this state would often get drowned out by that greasy megaphone.

[twincitizen]

From MinnPost: Minnesota’s Puritan side: We still have ‘blue laws’ — but for how long?

[twincitizen]

http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... 09131.html

Picking up steam, but still a tough battle ahead.

Attention urban-dwelling liberals : don't assume your legislators support Sunday sales just because they are cool urban-dwelling liberals like yourself. Most of them are actually likely to vote against the change, as they're beholden to the Teamsters union and don't reside in border cities/counties. You need to contact your legislators just as much as anyone else if you want to see this happen.

[gpete]

Great reminder. For example, Rep. Jim Davnie (Minneapolis) shared his Sunday liquor thoughts with me last year:

I voted no out of support for the small, mom and pop liquor stores in our community-Skol, East Lake, Zip's, and others. First, they are clear that they do not want to be open on Sundays. In the real world if we allowed Sunday sales they would have to be open due to competitive pressures. That would hurt them financially as their sales would not increase at the same rate as their costs would increase. They essentially would earn six days of revenue and experince seven days of costs. That could threaten their business.

Speaking more broadly one of the challenges of this proposal consistently is the presence of municipal liquor stores in many Minnesota communities. Those stores are also opposed. They of course are a revenue source for the host community and undermining their business model could cause them to be subsidized by property taxes instead. That is a powerful base of opposition for legislators with municipal liquor stores.

[twincitizen]

Thanks for sharing that anecdote.

Folks, I think it's fair to say that if you do not know your legislators specifically support Sunday sales, you should assume they are against it. It's on you to convince them otherwise. There is no organized pro-Sunday sales lobby.

[FISHMANPET]

Phyllis Khan is in favor.

[talindsay]

Great reminder. For example, Rep. Jim Davnie (Minneapolis) shared his Sunday liquor thoughts with me last year:

I voted no out of support for the small, mom and pop liquor stores in our community-Skol, East Lake, Zip's, and others. First, they are clear that they do not want to be open on Sundays. In the real world if we allowed Sunday sales they would have to be open due to competitive pressures. That would hurt them financially as their sales would not increase at the same rate as their costs would increase. They essentially would earn six days of revenue and experince seven days of costs. That could threaten their business.

Speaking more broadly one of the challenges of this proposal consistently is the presence of municipal liquor stores in many Minnesota communities. Those stores are also opposed. They of course are a revenue source for the host community and undermining their business model could cause them to be subsidized by property taxes instead. That is a powerful base of opposition for legislators with municipal liquor stores.

I've been arguing with Jim about this periodically for the last few years - I was flabbergasted when I found out he was against it, as it seems so incongruous and bizarre. I've suggested several times to him that if his concern is the "six days of income with seven days of expenses" thing (which I think is totally bogus but whatever) that he should support letting the businesses choose which day they are closed and removing the explicity Sunday ban. I hope to at least win him over to that viewpoint as it really carries no negative as far as I can tell.

[FISHMANPET]

I can understand opposition to choosing a ban day. If the store I usually go to is closed on Tuesday and I want booze on Tuesday I can go to another shop. My normal store has lost my business. Now of course the other store has gained my business. And when that other store is closed on Wednesday my local store is going to get a bump on Wednesday and it'll all even out, but on a very micro scale a store looses out.

Of course I don't care, government isn't here to prop up liquor stores. I'm honestly amazed at how many liquor stores we have. I can drive from Zips to Skol to Minnehaha Warehouse in just a few minutes. If I go into Cedar Riverside there are a couple there. Would it be the end of the world if one of these places shut down? To me, as a customer, no it wouldn't.

[mattaudio]

But, Freedom! What if you want to be open seven days?

[web]

I can understand opposition to choosing a ban day. If the store I usually go to is closed on Tuesday and I want booze on Tuesday I can go to another shop. My normal store has lost my business. Now of course the other store has gained my business. And when that other store is closed on Wednesday my local store is going to get a bump on Wednesday and it'll all even out, but on a very micro scale a store looses out.

Of course I don't care, government isn't here to prop up liquor stores. I'm honestly amazed at how many liquor stores we have. I can drive from Zips to Skol to Minnehaha Warehouse in just a few minutes. If I go into Cedar Riverside there are a couple there. Would it be the end of the world if one of these places shut down? To me, as a customer, no it wouldn't.

Thats why in Minnesota they will never have liquor in grocery stores......90% of the liquor stores would close the next day.

here in California I think I may have seen 1 or 2 liquor stores in the 25 yrs out here. Everything is in grocery stores.

[mattaudio]

pro*tec*tion*is*m

[Didier]

What are the rules for liquor sales on a given day? Maybe compromise by opening up Sunday sales but not allowing sales before 11:30 am on weekdays.

I have no idea if liquor stores are open on weekday mornings as it stands, but just throwing stuff against the wall here.

[Sara Bergen]

There was a great discussion about this on Wednesday at St. Louis Park City Hall. Senator Latz, Rep. Simon, and Rep. Winkler had a town hall meeting sponsored by the League of Women Voters. One of the first questions came from Jason Alvey of Four Firkins. He requested that liquor stores be able to be open on Sunday, and said he had evidence that WI liquor distributors are contributing to MN legislators' campaigns (showing that MN sales are being lost to WI). One cool thing he did was ask for people who supported Sunday sales to raise their hands. A considerable amount of folks did. He then asked those people who did not come to the town hall specifically to advocate for Sunday sales to put their hands down. There were still about 20 hands up (my numbers are likely not accurate--i am just guesstimating). The Four Firkins folks did a heck uva job getting folks out to support them. The reps, esp winkler, said they were quite impressed. Winkler said he gets more feedback (maybe he said emails) about Sunday liquor sales than any other issue--including minimum wage increase and SWLRT.

The response of Latz, Winkler, and Simon seemed to be "keep organizing and we'll see". They certainly were not overly supportive (but that was kind of their response to everything). Anyway, the town hall was filmed and it is going to be on SLP Park TV at some point.

(as an aside, I also asked about bonding re SWLRT and what our reps are doing to counteract Dibble and Hornstein, and I thought the response to these questions were pretty good).

[woofner]

Jason Alvey is great. Among the plethora of titles on his business card is "vanquisher of antiquated liquor laws" or something like that, so I'm glad he's maintaining that.