Brutalism

[talindsay]

So it comes up routinely on all Minneapolis forums - a widely-held opinion that Brutalist structures and landscapes are awful eyesores that ought to be torn down. I'm sure it will continue to come up in other threads, which is fine, but I thought it might be nice to just have a thread dedicated to discussions of Brutalism. I sort of think I'm setting up a cage match here, but Brutalism has fans as well as detractors, and there are certainly better or worse examples of it. Since the University of Minnesota had Ralph Rapson in charge of its Department of Architecture, we certainly the full range of Brutalist architecture here; some of it good, and some of it bad. Some is definitely worth saving for historic preservation reasons (Rarig Hall), while much of it probably isn't.

So, any chance of a civil discussion of Brutalism and the impending need to decide what should be preserved as models of the era, and what should be replaced?

[talindsay]

I'll start with a short take of my own: I've lived in two cities with vast amounts of Brutalist architecture: Washington, DC, and Minneapolis. Since the DC area's growth really hit its stride in the 1960s and 1970s, there's a tremendous amount of Brutalist architecture there. I moved from DC just before kindergarten around 1980, so I didn't have any intellectual, philosophical takes on its merits or issues; but I do vividly recall my emotional response to the buildings: in the midst of a hot DC summer they were *cold* on the inside; their spaces large and interesting, distinct signs that we were in a new, exciting place. I explicitly recall the Brutalist theaters we went to for plays; the Brutalist museums and libraries were cool (literally), fascinating spaces. They had the same gravitas as the heavy neo-classical buildings but managed to be whimsical and inviting at the same time; they were heavier, more important and more "interesting" than the ticky-tacky 1940s and 1950s architecture that dominated the outskirts and especially the Maryland suburb in which we lived. The bright oranges, yellows and reds of 1970s fabric furniture and carpeting stood to liven up the gray interiors, and in my memory the spaces were soft and cheery despite the cold, hard walls. Did I mention how cold all the spaces were? I liked it, DC is a hot city especially for a 5-year-old.

I was a little kid *AND* the buildings were new then. Over thirty years have passed since that heyday for this architectural form, and it shows. Whatever my reaction to specific Brutalist architecture and its poor aging however, I have a very positive association with the form from that childhood background with it. I do wonder the degree to which Brutalism's very core hard, unchanging nature has made it difficult to adapt the space to current decoration and color trends; as cool colors, for example, have become popular, Brutalist spaces can't really adapt: just as white-haired old ladies need bright colors to avoid looking washed out, Brutalist buildings need bold, deep decoration to offset the pale grayness. Riverside Plaza needs the bright color panels to keep it from looking like a dull fortress of stone, but bright color panels are very much out of vogue. There was an interplay of all the cultural trends of the 1960s and 1970s with Brutalist design realities, and it's harder to make them look good with current aesthetics.

[mulad]

I'm not a huge fan of Brutalism. I've come to like the Riverside Plaza towers, though a bit more for the semi-utopian vision they represented than for the architecture itself.

The biggest issue for me is that these structures need to be well-maintained to live up to their true design intent. Concrete doesn't age as well as people expect. I remember visiting the Massachusetts Institute of Technology a few years back and being very impressed by the architecture there (including a set of buildings by I. M. Pei) because the buildings have been kept up pretty well. I also visited on a nice summer day, as opposed to sometime in the middle of winter when everything feels cold and gray. Still, the campus is nowhere near as inviting as Harvard nearby.

[Realstreets]

As stated, I think a lot of brutalist buildings also suffer from neglect, which further detracts from an positive architectural aspects they retain. University of Illinois at Chicago's campus was almost entirely brutalist, however they have renovated some smaller buildings, which now don't look brutalist...

Before - http://vincemichael.files.wordpress.com ... =450&h=338
After - http://gurtzelectric.tree-fox.com/wp-co ... 00x300.jpg

The tall building in the background of the Before photo was in such bad shape the concrete exterior started to fall off, raining down onto people. I actually think these buildings are better done examples of brutalism, as opposed to say the wonky Boston City Hall or Riverside Plaza.

[chimpls]

^^^
I walk by that building every day! It's part of the University of Illinois, Chicago campus. I'm hoping that the university eventually remodels many of the other brutalist buildings on campus..many of them are not in good shape, particularly University Halls' exterior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University ... t_Chicago)

[MNdible]

Before you judge brutalism, go see the Abbey Church (and the rest of the Breuer buildings) at St. John's.

It's a revelation.

[mister.shoes]

And then imagine the church with the red/orange/yellow stained glass curtain wall Breuer designed for it rather than the cold blue one that got installed instead. It's already an incredible space, but the warmth of those colors would have been a great touch—especially in winter. Don't get me wrong, the stained glass is gorgeous, but it's so cold.

Speaking of the church, despite facing north, it gets a ton of natural light because the brilliantly-designed bell banner reflects sunlight in. I love that thing.

I'd add some thoughts on his other buildings up at my alma mater, but I'm sick of phone-typing. I will say this: the Bauhaus school was an awesome approach to architecture. Brutal or not

[at40man]

I'm giving this thread a "blope".

I work in the "Quad" at 3M Center (the buildings immediately surrounding the 3M Tower/Building 220). At the time each of these buildings were built, it was done in whatever the modern style of the time was. Today as I walked through the Plaza, I noticed that Building 223 had a few squares of different colors of paint which looked like samples. Grey, beige, and "greige". Currently, the exterior has a crushed-stone surface not unsimilar to Town Square and City Center. The rest of the buildings are white. My guess is they are doing this to combat the aged look of stained brutalist architecture.

Stained and dirty exteriors are something I see quite often on brutalist buildings. While a fresh coat of paint will undoubtedly freshen up the dowdy exterior, it makes me wonder -- should more brutalist buildings be painted, or will concrete stains come out with a power washing?

[mattaudio]

Before you judge brutalism, go see the Abbey Church (and the rest of the Breuer buildings) at St. John's.

It's a revelation.

Meh, while it was definitely ahead of its time (people think it was from the late 60s or 70s when it was built late 50s) it just never grew on me. I like some of the details on it, but when I step back and look at it as a whole I just struggle with it. And the basement with the chapels may be the creepiest place I've ever been.

[MNdible]

Did you just "meh" one of the greatest works of architecture in the entire state?

I get that it's not a warm-fuzzy building, and some people may have strong reactions to it, but "meh"?

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

[mattaudio]

I did indeed.

[FISHMANPET]

It's almost as if art is subjective.

[Wedgeguy]

It's almost as if art is subjective.

Why YES, art and architecture are both very subjective disciplines.

[Chava]

We dare you to come inside this beast:

[at40man]

It's almost as if art is subjective.

Why YES, art and architecture are both very subjective disciplines.

Whether you personally like it or not is largely subjective. BUT>>>>>>>>>> masterful artists DO recognize that there are indeed objective standards to help determine if art (and architecture) is truly good or not.

[Nathan]

and regardless if someone decides it's subjective or not... it was still an important era in architectural history, and these buildings should be moving into the historic context rapidly, especially ones with decent thoughtful architects. it's frustrating how much of rapsons work has been demolished :/

you could easily chemically clean the concrete, or just get a similar color masonry paint/coating.

[talindsay]

Nathan, I agree about Rapson's work, we've already lost many of his best. As for painting, I think it's a better choice to chemical-wash it because the raw material was part of the ideal - a painted surface doesn't interact the same way that a raw surface does, and typically once it's painted you have to keep painting.

I'm actually more concerned about the interiors of the buildings than the exteriors - Brutalism wasn't just about external space, after all. While many of the buildings have been maintained reasonably well on the outside, the interior spaces have been less fortunate.

[at40man]

Nathan, I agree about Rapson's work, we've already lost many of his best. As for painting, I think it's a better choice to chemical-wash it because the raw material was part of the ideal - a painted surface doesn't interact the same way that a raw surface does, and typically once it's painted you have to keep painting.

I'm actually more concerned about the interiors of the buildings than the exteriors - Brutalism wasn't just about external space, after all. While many of the buildings have been maintained reasonably well on the outside, the interior spaces have been less fortunate.

The lobby of 223 was never renovated and looks like it is straight from "Mad Men" with wood grained walls, travertine floors, etc -- while the skyway level was gutted and rebuilt to be ultra modern, like "2001: A Space Odyssey". The office space in the building still rocks demountable partitions (which used to be considered cutting edge) and a funky ceiling tile system that I really like.

When I went to Century College for a stint, it still rocked of its brutalist past. I walked through there recently, and all the interior walls were painted white and the floors carpeted. It was in need of some TLC, but some parts of the interior renovation look like it is pretending to be something other than what it is.

[Nathan]

Anyone who just wants to learn a little more about Brutalism whether you like it or not... this gives some good perspective

http://www.dezeen.com/2014/09/10/dezeen ... n-hopkins/

[mplsjaromir]

Very cool example of Brutalism