Minneapolis & St. Paul Fantasies and Speculations

[min-chi-cbus]

With all due respect, I really don't like the idea of messing with these small plots. The only exception might be the one highlighed in red, as it currently doesn't serve much of a purpose being surrounded by super busy roads, but the one in blue is highly used as a gathering place, a place to throw the ball around, and a place to picnic or just lay out. I really like that use for this location and hope it NEVER changes (as the residents that just paid big money to be "on" the lake do as well!). I once thought as you did though -- I wanted Lake Calhoun to have some gimmick or catch or something that was more than just what it is currently, but the older I get and the more of that crap I see the more I loathe it and the cities that do it. The great cities in the world don't mess with their BEST scenic points and public spaces. The Space Needle -- although incredibly ugly to me -- isn't right on the top of the hill on the water-front, it's set back several blocks and is/was surrounded by basically nothing. Can you imagine NYC building an observation deck or tower in Central Park?!

The less "gimmicky" or "kitchy" the city is the more respect I have for it. If people can't respect the awe and beauty of Lake Calhoun as it currently sits, I don't think an observation deck is going to help much. The only place where I can see some kind of public observation thing is in Uptown, which would have views of downtown AND the Lakes, but I'd be disappointed if it was an eyesore and/or didn't fit with the neighborhood. Besides, there's the trolly between the lakes that's kind of kitchy and a small touristy amenity, and that's about the extent to which I care to see those things on the lakes.

Sorry, I guess I kind of find the lakes as "sacred ground" for the Twin Cities.

P.S. I DON'T feel that way about all development around the lake (like 2626 WestLake), just development that isn't natural or tries too hard.

[ECtransplant]

With all due respect, I really don't like the idea of messing with these small plots. The only exception might be the one highlighed in red, as it currently doesn't serve much of a purpose being surrounded by super busy roads, but the one in blue is highly used as a gathering place, a place to throw the ball around, and a place to picnic or just lay out. I really like that use for this location and hope it NEVER changes (as the residents that just paid big money to be "on" the lake do as well!). I once thought as you did though -- I wanted Lake Calhoun to have some gimmick or catch or something that was more than just what it is currently, but the older I get and the more of that crap I see the more I loathe it and the cities that do it. The great cities in the world don't mess with their BEST scenic points and public spaces. The Space Needle -- although incredibly ugly to me -- isn't right on the top of the hill on the water-front, it's set back several blocks and is/was surrounded by basically nothing. Can you imagine NYC building an observation deck or tower in Central Park?!

The less "gimmicky" or "kitchy" the city is the more respect I have for it. If people can't respect the awe and beauty of Lake Calhoun as it currently sits, I don't think an observation deck is going to help much. The only place where I can see some kind of public observation thing is in Uptown, which would have views of downtown AND the Lakes, but I'd be disappointed if it was an eyesore and/or didn't fit with the neighborhood. Besides, there's the trolly between the lakes that's kind of kitchy and a small touristy amenity, and that's about the extent to which I care to see those things on the lakes.

Sorry, I guess I kind of find the lakes as "sacred ground" for the Twin Cities.

P.S. I DON'T feel that way about all development around the lake (like 2626 WestLake), just development that isn't natural or tries too hard.

I agree that if it was done in a gimmicky way that it would be horrible. I just don't know what to do with the space in that red triangle. I feel like something could and should be done there. The chain of lakes is such a great asset. It doesn't feel right to me how Isles and Calhoun are separated by a torrent of cars rushing to and from the suburbs. It's confusing how to walk to Calhoun from Isles or vice versa without crossing Lake St. Perhaps just making the trails better labelled would help those unfamiliar with them, but something interesting in the red triangle could lessen the gravity of the car traffic on pedestrians heading to and from the lakes. I don't see how you get something that needs road access in there though, given the traffic situation and road layout. Thinking about it some more, I think I got too excited about the idea of doing something with that space and went too far with it. However, I still think a small observation deck/tower in the red triangle with access via a pedestrian bridge could work.

[mplser]

honestly, I think a 2 or 3 story apartment building with retail on the first floor would be great for this intersection (the red parcel). not really tall enough to block anyone's views, but it could do wonders for creating an urban feel next to the lake instead of just keeping this little grass-patch that does little more than provide a big garbage can for passing motorists to flick their cigarette butts.

[PhilmerPhil]

I've said this before. Reduce the lanes on West Lake, allow on street parking, add cycle tracks, plant trees that create a canopy, build a pedestrian trail on the north side of the road. These alone will do more than any reuse of the red triangle in urbanizing the area and giving it more of a sense of place. These are also realistic, and not too expensive or challenging to implement. The only thing stopping it is traffic engineers, NIMBYs, and slow moving government processes.

I'd be really interested to see what redesciple's (or any of the other great folks at Streets.MN) thoughts are on the potential of Lake St. from France Ave. to Uptown. Would make an excellent Streets.MN post!

[Avian]

I wanted to see what an "icon" tower might look like in the skyline, so a while back I created what I called the "Star of the North" tower. The "spear" would be oriented to the North Star. At night, a powerful laser emanating from the spear would connect the city to the star. From this vantage point the spear would actually be oriented more toward the camera, but you get the idea.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[mplser]

cool! I would love to have an observation deck in this city other than the Foshay one.

[Nick]

I wanted to see what an "icon" tower might look like in the skyline, so a while back I created what I called the "Star of the North" tower. The "spear" would be oriented to the North Star. At night, a powerful laser emanating from the spear would connect the city to the star. From this vantage point the spear would actually be oriented more toward the camera, but you get the idea.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This is actually a pretty solid idea.

[min-chi-cbus]

I REALLY don't want an icon tower like the Space Needle or UN Tower in Toronto for Minneapolis....but I do LOVE your idea -- very creative! You should pitch that to somebody who can implement it (or something like it)!

[Avian]

Thanks. I should have mentioned that it would be nice to have it positioned exactly on the 45th parallel, but that would put it maybe a bit too far north of downtown.

[4-d]

RED TRIANGLE

Why not a big ole' fountain with some benches and a place to pull up a food truck or for entertainers of some sort, like musicians to busk or clowns or artist?

[min-chi-cbus]

RED TRIANGLE

Why not a big ole' fountain with some benches and a place to pull up a food truck or for entertainers of some sort, like musicians to busk or clowns or artist?

WAY too dangerous, considering the RED TRIANGLE is surrounded by fast-moving vehicles on all sides....better for the BLUE TRIANGLE next to the snack shack.

[4-d]

I disagree, You can put up barrier posts like you see in Europe that are cement but still allow pedestrians to pass between them. The food truck/entertainment space could simply be a wide shoulder or pull off on Calhoun Parkway. By placing pedestrians here, it forces people to slow down before they get to the pedestrian dense area of Uptown at Lake and Hennepin.

[Wedgeguy]

We talk like Lake Street is a city road!! That is a county road and they will not be as welcoming to having pedestrians next to a MAJOR trunk road. IF you don't think it gets alot of traffic, try going down it at either rush hour and see how far traffic is backed up. Pie in the sky idea that will not fly with any government agency for financing! That is one of the biggest bottlenecks in the area, with the corners of Hennepin and Lake/Lagoon and Hennepin a big second.

[Nick]

Thanks. I should have mentioned that it would be nice to have it positioned exactly on the 45th parallel, but that would put it maybe a bit too far north of downtown.

I wonder how that would sit relative to the rest of the skyline if it went on the concrete slab over the underground parking ramp by the Metrodome LRT station? Sort of like the Space Needle, it'd sit far enough back from the skyline that you could have a view of the whole thing, but it'd still look like it was a part of the rest of the CBD from faraway (from most vantage points I figure). And it'd be part of the upcoming Vikings park strip and maybe look nice with that?

[Le Sueur]

I REALLY don't want an icon tower like the Space Needle or UN Tower in Toronto for Minneapolis....but I do LOVE your idea -- very creative! You should pitch that to somebody who can implement it (or something like it)!

Agreed here. I like the idea. Maybe this could make a really unique topper for new skyscraper in downtown? Not so overdone as to overpower the rest of the skyline, but an addition to a beautiful building that could give critical mass to keeping an observation deck open.

Sidebar the TSA might not want you shooting down planes with a landmark laser.

[Didier]

I've long thought that entire strip of Lake Street from Calhoun Square to Lake Calhoun has potential to be really cool, but right now the lack of unified retail and heavy car use makes it so uptown and the lake really don't feel connected at all.

[Lancestar2]

OK I will share with you my WILDEST FANTASY!

1) This November Democrats go crazy and vote like like it was 1998 and vote in a 3rd party but with a Democratic majority!

2) With the republican Party now silenced Gov. Mark Dayton goes WILD and fast tracks the SW LRT line so fast that the project is on time to open by 2016 Holiday season!

3) Gov. Mark Dayton makes it RAIN money on the streetcar system and builds..
Greenway Corridor BAM COMPLETED 2014
Nicollet Mall/Centrail Corridor WAM! COMPLETED BY 2014
Henniepin segment WHOOP! COMPLETED BB 2014

4) Also we find out Mark Dayton is cheating on the SW LRT Line... and he was planning and securing funding for the Bottineau segment at the SAME TIME!

5) Metro Transit GOES WILD TOO! and decide to build the Orange Line (North sand south 35w!) and Red line to their FULL size, and they even make it bigger by expanding it another 25%

6) Minneapolis Mayor RT Ryback Orders the owners of City Center to "tear down this ugly wall and rebuild it to look pretty and work better!" ...they listen and create a wonderful center full of retail in a open style. Also moving the crowded bus stops to a underground station (not sure of the logistics but hey its MY Fantasy!)

7) We fast forward to 2014 Oct. 31st ... the street car lines are built and guess so was the LRT lines! Dayton is still Governor for his last week (again its my fantasy so who cares if it makes sense!) and he throws a SEXY HALLOWEEN PARTY and ALL the developers are their! even Mr. Trump! everyone reaches into their pant's and grabs their check books excited to invest in America... but more excited to in vest in Minneapolis!!! Trump and his friends decide to build over 20,000 apartments in buildings ranging from 5-35 floors while keeping the downtown skyline untouched

WOW what a fun fantasy!

[4-d]

OK I will share with you my WILDEST FANTASY!

1) This November Democrats go crazy and vote like like it was 1998 and vote in a 3rd party but with a Democratic majority!

2) With the republican Party now silenced Gov. Mark Dayton goes WILD and fast tracks the SW LRT line so fast that the project is on time to open by 2016 Holiday season!

3) Gov. Mark Dayton makes it RAIN money on the streetcar system and builds..
Greenway Corridor BAM COMPLETED 2014
Nicollet Mall/Centrail Corridor WAM! COMPLETED BY 2014
Henniepin segment WHOOP! COMPLETED BB 2014

4) Also we find out Mark Dayton is cheating on the SW LRT Line... and he was planning and securing funding for the Bottineau segment at the SAME TIME!

5) Metro Transit GOES WILD TOO! and decide to build the Orange Line (North sand south 35w!) and Red line to their FULL size, and they even make it bigger by expanding it another 25%

6) Minneapolis Mayor RT Ryback Orders the owners of City Center to "tear down this ugly wall and rebuild it to look pretty and work better!" ...they listen and create a wonderful center full of retail in a open style. Also moving the crowded bus stops to a underground station (not sure of the logistics but hey its MY Fantasy!)

7) We fast forward to 2014 Oct. 31st ... the street car lines are built and guess so was the LRT lines! Dayton is still Governor for his last week (again its my fantasy so who cares if it makes sense!) and he throws a SEXY HALLOWEEN PARTY and ALL the developers are their! even Mr. Trump! everyone reaches into their pant's and grabs their check books excited to invest in America... but more excited to in vest in Minneapolis!!! Trump and his friends decide to build over 20,000 apartments in buildings ranging from 5-35 floors while keeping the downtown skyline untouched

WOW what a fun fantasy!

YES!

[retiredbanker]

Thank you Avian for posting that pic of your "icon" tower located downtown. I often wondered myself over the years, if Minneapolis shouldn't have some type of tower like the Space Needle. My thoughts of location would be near Cedar-Riverside, along the river. It would stretch the skyline eastward, have a great unobstructed view of downtown Minneapolis, the river & dam, the U of M, even of downtown St. Paul. The observation deck level would only need to be in the 600' range in height. I do like your idea of having a laser component with the tower. It very well could become the "signature" of Minneapolis, if done right. Great idea Avian!

[612transplant]

Retiredbanker, you might be as good as anyone to ask-- wasn't there a 600' "Space Needle" proposed for St. Paul many, many years ago? Like, 1950's or 60's? I remember stumbling upon a rendering of one online or in some Twin Cities history book, but haven't been able to figure out where I saw it....