George Floyd murder and aftermath

Introductions - Urban Issues - Miscellaneous News, Topics, Interests
alexschief
Foshay Tower
Posts: 845
Joined: November 12th, 2015, 11:35 am
Location: Philadelphia

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby alexschief » November 3rd, 2020, 1:12 pm

Also worth noting that the City Council essentially blew up their standard public process, and was asking the Charter Commission to do the same, in order to rush it through and get it onto the ballot for November.
Surely it's not a mystery to anyone why they did this?

uptownbro
Landmark Center
Posts: 240
Joined: February 10th, 2020, 11:00 pm

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby uptownbro » November 3rd, 2020, 1:49 pm

It always came off as a power grab(given they tried this a few years ago) to me while wrapping themselves in a just cause for political cover as they didnt have a real plan outside of some overly vague talking points. But I can be pretty cynical

QuietBlue
Target Field
Posts: 578
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 8:50 am

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby QuietBlue » November 3rd, 2020, 2:06 pm

Surely it's not a mystery to anyone why they did this?
It's a mystery to me as to why they didn't foresee the inevitable outcome, unless they did so knowingly and wanted to look like they were doing something.

alexschief
Foshay Tower
Posts: 845
Joined: November 12th, 2015, 11:35 am
Location: Philadelphia

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby alexschief » November 3rd, 2020, 5:54 pm

I feel like you folks are being deliberately obtuse. The City Council took action when it did because George Floyd had been killed shortly before and there were big riots and protests in the aftermath. Had those events occurred in March, I suspect the City Council may have acted in April. Like, the City Council didn't choose the timeline. How is this not obvious?

Not sure I understand the argument that the City Council shouldn't have acted swiftly to lay the groundwork for significant changes. Not sure I understand the argument that the City Council shouldn't have tried to get a mandate from the voters before proceeding.

Whatever you think of the City Council's proposal, the Charter Commission was way out of line. They took powers that had been granted to them by circumstance, not by statute. They substituted their will for the will of the voters. If you like the outcome, say you like the outcome. But don't try to pretend like it was anything different than what it was.

nordeast homer
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 721
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 11:11 am

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby nordeast homer » November 4th, 2020, 1:03 pm

Not having a clue about their direction is not laying groundwork and using incendiary language only proved to stoke anger and put more people and businesses at risk. Angry or not, they are not paid to be protesters, they are paid to make a city run and keep its citizens safe. They run purely on emotion with no forethought.

QuietBlue
Target Field
Posts: 578
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 8:50 am

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby QuietBlue » November 4th, 2020, 2:28 pm

Whatever you think of the City Council's proposal, the Charter Commission was way out of line. They took powers that had been granted to them by circumstance, not by statute.
What does this mean? Either they have the power to do something, or they don't. The City Council knows full well how the Charter Commission works. They can get it on the ballot for next year.

alexschief
Foshay Tower
Posts: 845
Joined: November 12th, 2015, 11:35 am
Location: Philadelphia

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby alexschief » November 4th, 2020, 5:27 pm

Not having a clue about their direction is not laying groundwork and using incendiary language only proved to stoke anger and put more people and businesses at risk. Angry or not, they are not paid to be protesters, they are paid to make a city run and keep its citizens safe. They run purely on emotion with no forethought.
I don't get really this argument. First, the City Council hasn't been clear about an end destination, because events are moving swiftly and a lot more study and consultation is needed. The City Council has launched a public engagement process and already had at least one public discussion with nationally-recognized experts on the issue of crime and policing. I don't think it's a bad thing if you are honest about not having all the answers right away, but lay out an affirmative process to get those answers. That's what the City Council has done.

Then there's the language issue. I'll keep repeating this until I'm blue in the face, but if you actually read what the City Councilmembers have written, you'll find really thoughtful, really smart, really deliberative reflections on the issue. Now, could the City Councilmembers have communicated better with the public and the media? Sure. I think they were caught by surprise by the attention on the Powderhorn Park pledge. But also, the media deserves a bit of the blame here. People have been willfully obtuse about this. A lot of these things are easy to find. It's not hard to read what the Councilmembers wrote at the time. This is a complicated issue and it deserves time and nuance to understand, and I think the City Council has been acting in that way.
Whatever you think of the City Council's proposal, the Charter Commission was way out of line. They took powers that had been granted to them by circumstance, not by statute.
What does this mean? Either they have the power to do something, or they don't. The City Council knows full well how the Charter Commission works. They can get it on the ballot for next year.
They have the power to delay, not the power to veto. If the authors of Minneapolis' Charter Commission had intended to give them a veto, they would've given them one. What gave them a pocket veto in this instance was an accident of timing. Nobody actually thought the Charter Commission wanted to study the issue more, even the Commissioners didn't say that. They acted the way they did in bad faith.

John21
Union Depot
Posts: 378
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:23 am
Location: 38th Street Station

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby John21 » November 4th, 2020, 6:55 pm

People have been willfully obtuse about this.
Unfortunately that's where we're at, with everything. Defund the police is a bold phrase. Police reform has been brought up forever, but the reform has been too slow. So we say, let's be bold. It clearly isn't working out.

uptownbro
Landmark Center
Posts: 240
Joined: February 10th, 2020, 11:00 pm

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby uptownbro » November 5th, 2020, 8:49 am

If they were caught off guard that people focused in on there pledge to abolish the MSPD in front of a large crowd then they are not very good politicians. Politics isn't about how many insightful papers you write its about what you say and do. Also the city was reeling from half a weeks of riots and unrest of course all eyes were going to be on city leadership.

Didier
Capella Tower
Posts: 2402
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 10:11 am
Location: MSP

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby Didier » January 25th, 2021, 10:46 am

I feel like sometimes it's easy to gloss over stories like this and hang our hat on Minneapolis being nice in other ways. But doing business with the city of Minneapolis really sounds like a nightmare sometimes.

Essentially the demolition contractors jacked up their prices following the riots, so the city stepped in to help coordinate relief. Instead they've been bogged down with their own processes and haven't offered any aid yet, leaving the owners in limbo while their ruined buildings continue to crumble along Lake Street.
(Minneapolis Director of Development Services Steve) Poor agreed it is not easy for the preapproved property owners to obtain help. For starters, they must agree to let the city hire the contractor. So far, however, not one of six pending projects has made it through the city's procurement process. City officials must conduct multiple reviews to ensure bids are fair, that minority contractors were considered and that environmental considerations have been taken into account, Poor said.

"We have reached out to our folks in procurement to see if these can be processed a little faster," he said.

Once a job is completed, the city will pay the bill and property owners will be assessed the cost of the work on their property tax bill. Poor said owners can then ask the Minneapolis City Council to forgive the assessment on a "hardship" basis, which he predicted would not be a major hurdle since the council approved setting aside $2 million for the work last fall.
Not that I'm about to vote Republican or anything, but this is what they're talking about. Sometimes you just need to get stuff done.

https://www.startribune.com/businesses- ... 600014337/

Anondson
IDS Center
Posts: 4350
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby Anondson » January 25th, 2021, 12:04 pm

The speed of the city “helping” get demolitions to happen seems to rival the Charter Commission doing its best to make change not happen and be as small as possible.

John21
Union Depot
Posts: 378
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:23 am
Location: 38th Street Station

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby John21 » January 25th, 2021, 12:53 pm

Harstad said it cost about $20,000 to clear the lot, once the site of an Arby's. Harstad said Arby's is not going to rebuild its restaurant, citing concern about the potential for more rioting if the police officers charged in Floyd's death are acquitted. Harstad has yet to find another tenant for the site.
This quote surprised me. Honestly thought the chain retail/restaurants would be the earliest back in business. Has anyone heard anything about when Cub is reopening?

alexschief
Foshay Tower
Posts: 845
Joined: November 12th, 2015, 11:35 am
Location: Philadelphia

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby alexschief » January 25th, 2021, 12:54 pm

Minneapolis city government is tremendously good at long-term planning and fairly ineffective at short-term acting. I'm not sure if that's the fault of the lack or a strong mayor system or the lack of strong mayoral leadership in this instance, but it's pretty bad that the city has struggled to clear away its own barriers on this.

Something of a related situation seems to be unfolding with George Floyd Square, where a lack of action seems to be sliding into a long-term planning process by default (not necessarily a bad outcome, but probably not the one that was originally intended).

fehler
Rice Park
Posts: 469
Joined: July 30th, 2012, 8:33 am

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby fehler » January 25th, 2021, 2:00 pm

Cub rumor Feb 10.

Mdcastle
Foshay Tower
Posts: 909
Joined: March 23rd, 2013, 8:28 am
Location: Bloomington, MN

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby Mdcastle » January 25th, 2021, 3:15 pm

Knowing they wouldn't be able to build a drive-thru, or at least requiring a big legal fight to do so, is also probably a part of Arby's not wanting to rebuild.

alexschief
Foshay Tower
Posts: 845
Joined: November 12th, 2015, 11:35 am
Location: Philadelphia

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby alexschief » January 25th, 2021, 3:25 pm

Knowing they wouldn't be able to build a drive-thru, or at least requiring a big legal fight to do so, is also probably a part of Arby's not wanting to rebuild.
US Bank is proposing to rebuild a destroyed drive-thru at today's planning commission meeting, with city staff support. The ban is on new drive-thrus, not existing ones or damaged ones. If Arby's wanted to rebuild exactly what had been destroyed, they would be able to do so.

Cat349F
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 102
Joined: August 25th, 2019, 9:45 am
Location: Outside the sustainable urban core

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby Cat349F » January 25th, 2021, 5:19 pm

Essentially the demolition contractors jacked up their prices following the riots, so the city stepped in to help coordinate relief.
Being that I work for one, I can attest to that being untrue. We were already losing work due to the pandemic and the shutdown.
Unsustainable fossil burning fool.

Mdcastle
Foshay Tower
Posts: 909
Joined: March 23rd, 2013, 8:28 am
Location: Bloomington, MN

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby Mdcastle » January 25th, 2021, 10:31 pm

So I'm incorrect in my understanding that if something is not allowed by zoning, it doesn't lose grandfather status if the structure is destroyed? That's ostensibly why Kraus Anderson put up a lot of fuss about Southtown being rezoned for higher density, they wanted to be able to build another strip mall if a tornado or something destroyed their current strip mall.

alexschief
Foshay Tower
Posts: 845
Joined: November 12th, 2015, 11:35 am
Location: Philadelphia

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby alexschief » January 26th, 2021, 8:11 am

So I'm incorrect in my understanding that if something is not allowed by zoning, it doesn't lose grandfather status if the structure is destroyed? That's ostensibly why Kraus Anderson put up a lot of fuss about Southtown being rezoned for higher density, they wanted to be able to build another strip mall if a tornado or something destroyed their current strip mall.
In this case, yes, US Bank retained its ability to rebuild a nonconforming use. I'm not sure what the rule is more generally or for other uses in Minneapolis.

The US Bank drive-thru was approved last night, FYI.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 4084
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: Whimsical NE

Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby Silophant » January 26th, 2021, 9:00 am

If I remember the Burger King fight correctly, there's a year deadline to reestablish a non-conforming use before the grandfathered rights are lost. I was only half paying attention to the US Bank discussion last night, but they were asked why they weren't building a mixed-use project on the lot like the Wells Fargo in Elliot Park, and that was part of the rationale.

I'm not sure if that's Minneapolis-specific, though. The rules may be different in Bloomington.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests