George Floyd murder and aftermath

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uptownbro
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby uptownbro » February 11th, 2021, 9:32 am

https://www.startribune.com/derek-chauv ... 600021615/

Unreal to me, Chauvin was willing to admit to murder but Barr blocked it.

amiller92
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby amiller92 » February 11th, 2021, 9:49 am

Honestly unsure about Barr's judgment here. A third degree plea and more than ten years in jail would have been an objectively good result (and honestly, still is), as it is very hard to convict cops, but I don't think he's wrong to worry that it would seem like too little and too fast to some people, most especially those most angered.

Interesting timing on the leak, though, and may imply that a plea deal before the trial is possible. Honestly, that would be great.

Yes, I'm aware that I've used honestly three (now four) times in this post.

uptownbro
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby uptownbro » February 11th, 2021, 9:55 am

I can his logic but at the same time no trial is a sure thing. Even a 3rd degree plea would have been huge and I just dont trust Barr.
Just seems like it could have really lowered the temp in the room for the whole country.
I had not thought of that, maybe he is looking at his options and thinks that deal still is a good one.

amiller92
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby amiller92 » February 11th, 2021, 11:00 am

I can his logic but at the same time no trial is a sure thing. Even a 3rd degree plea would have been huge and I just dont trust Barr.
Just seems like it could have really lowered the temp in the room for the whole country.
I had not thought of that, maybe he is looking at his options and thinks that deal still is a good one.
It's nothing but speculation, but possible that Ellison wanted to a trial balloon to gauge how the public would respond to a potential plea deal. If so, you'd have to think the deal would involve more than 3rd degree murder.

Or the defense wanted a trial balloon to put pressure on Ellison to agree to the old deal.

Or none of that is true.

uptownbro
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby uptownbro » February 11th, 2021, 11:11 am

All very good points. I have to think it was the defense to put pressure on the state as I think your right about Ellison unless both have all about agreed to it and he wants to make sure there is not public outcry over it.
But yes all speculation at this point.

Mdcastle
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby Mdcastle » February 11th, 2021, 7:27 pm

The facts in Floyd don't really support a third degree murder charge so a second degree murder conviction could be the result of a jury trial- jurors won't have the option of splitting the difference like you would with a plea. Chauvin's actions were directed at one specific, identified person, whereas Noor fired his gun blindly at something that went bump in the night and in the direction of occupied houses.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby VacantLuxuries » February 12th, 2021, 12:27 am

After Floyd's murder, calls for police reform were strong and bipartisan.

After the following civil unrest, the bipartisan calls for reform were replaced with whataboutisms and bad faith arguments about property damage being a somehow equivalent horror.

At a time when Barr was openly trying to push public opinion in a way favorable to the re-election of his boss, and with a lifelong history of standing with law enforcement against peaceful protestors, why would he hand police reform supporters a win?

grrdanko
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby grrdanko » February 12th, 2021, 7:55 am

I'm not looking forward to 4 months of military occupation in our city this year.

I think the situation is setting up to be perfect storm that we are not at all ready for.

- If Chauvin is acquitted the public will be even more angry because justice could have been served but wasn't

- This is happening just as we are coming out of winter after a year of covid restrictions. There is a lot of pent up rage / energy

- After the election and insurrection there is a large possibility of outside agitators / politically motivated people showing up to further escalate the situation

After all that we'll do it again in August.


I fear the civil unrest will be LA Riots scale.


I hope I'm wrong and I know we'll get through it.

amiller92
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby amiller92 » February 12th, 2021, 10:20 am

The facts in Floyd don't really support a third degree murder charge so a second degree murder conviction could be the result of a jury trial- jurors won't have the option of splitting the difference like you would with a plea. Chauvin's actions were directed at one specific, identified person, whereas Noor fired his gun blindly at something that went bump in the night and in the direction of occupied houses.
You're not wrong, except that Minnesota's interpretation of depraved indifference is a bit unusual, I think. I do not recall the more than one victim thing from law school (which was long enough ago that it's possible that I just do not remember).

But the combination of the the prosecution trying to restore that charge and the leak about him being willing to agree to plead to it makes me wonder if those things aren't related. You're right that plea deals often involve agreeing to a lesser charge, so maybe it wouldn't matter, but maybe they're concerned the judge would reject the plea as inapplicable.

uptownbro
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby uptownbro » February 12th, 2021, 10:23 am

The facts actually do support third degree charges as well as the current second degree charges as it was "without intent to cause death" and I dont think you can prove that he was without a doubt trying to kill him. Thats why the calls back in june for first degree charges were beyond foolish.
The city and state are taking the risk of that very seriously it seems but I do fear it will be a long few weeks.
Barr did not act in good faith and even if it wasnt "justice" to the degree some were demanding it would have still been a win. You have to wonder how that one choice changed the course of how events have unfolded here and nationally since
My hope is that with a light at the end of the tunnel around covid it will lower the temperature some

twincitizen
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby twincitizen » June 3rd, 2021, 6:37 am

A phased reopening of 38th and Chicago began at dawn today: https://www.startribune.com/city-worker ... 600064121/

The fist will stay, surrounded by bump-outs (plastic posts I'm guessing?), but the concrete barriers closing the area off are being removed and the intersection will reopen to emergency vehicles. Metro Transit buses will return...soon (probably as soon as they can get the word out to riders and take down the detour signs).

Hopefully they can re-add the D Line stations back into the construction contract without delay. That said, tearing up the exact area where George Floyd died is going to be...politically fraught. I think that particular issue should be handled between Metro Transit (comms and planning staff) and the activist community who are going to have a hard time with that. Leave the city and politicians out of it. Explain to the public why they in fact do need to replace the sidewalk and curb where he died for the northbound station, but also name the station George Floyd Square and promise additional public art honoring his life.

uptownbro
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby uptownbro » June 3rd, 2021, 7:37 am

The less the city leadership is involved the better on the bus issues. There is a reason none of them have come out as having signed off on this.
I do think they can sell the idea of a bus station and redoing the road/sidewalk but it wont be easy.

MNdible
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby MNdible » June 3rd, 2021, 8:21 am

I would assume that, while there will still be a station in the vicinity here, this station area design will be significantly reworked from the previous vision.

alexschief
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby alexschief » June 3rd, 2021, 9:01 am

Zero chance that they build a station on the pavement where George Floyd died.

They will probably move the station further north or maybe move it to the south side of the intersection.

grant1simons2
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby grant1simons2 » June 3rd, 2021, 9:08 am

Cars will be used as terrorism here. Keep the square open to the community.

amiller92
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby amiller92 » June 3rd, 2021, 9:15 am

. Metro Transit buses will return...soon (probably as soon as they can get the word out to riders and take down the detour signs).
They are detoured farther north for D Line station construction, so maybe not.
Hopefully they can re-add the D Line stations back into the construction contract without delay. That said, tearing up the exact area where George Floyd died is going to be...politically fraught.
I'd be shocked if that happened. They'll move it down the block, I'd guess.

amiller92
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby amiller92 » June 3rd, 2021, 9:16 am

Cars will be used as terrorism here. Keep the square open to the community.
I haven't had a chance to go over there, but from the pictures and videos I've seen, it looks like cars space will be pretty constrained, with the memorial space blocked off by jersey and other concrete barriers, so maybe it won't attract that many cars.

twincitizen
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby twincitizen » June 3rd, 2021, 11:36 am

People can take whatever position they want on allowing private cars through the intersection, but the suggestion that we're going to detour Metro Transit buses FOREVER (specifically the busiest route in the system) is so ****ing wrongheaded and juvenile that I don't even know how to respond to it. I lose a little more of my sanity every time I see someone that I respect endorse this moronic idea of detouring and delaying buses forever.

We can have a memorial and a street...it is absolutely not an either-or. Why don't these activists lobby the city (or better yet, a non-profit) to buy the now-closed Speedway property (NW corner) or the church parking lot (SW corner) and construct a permanent memorial there? Could it be that the primary motivator for these bored college-age SJWs is not the memorial itself but in fact constant attention and confrontation-seeking behavior? The longer this goes on, the more clear it is that it isn't about the memory of George Floyd and honoring his life. It's about the small number of individuals who have spent most of the past year hanging out here and making them feel validated for having done so.

LakeCharles
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby LakeCharles » June 3rd, 2021, 11:42 am

People can take whatever position they want on allowing private cars through the intersection, but the suggestion that we're going to detour Metro Transit buses FOREVER (specifically the busiest route in the system) is so ****ing wrongheaded and juvenile that I don't even know how to respond to it. I lose a little more of my sanity every time I see someone that I respect endorse this moronic idea of detouring and delaying buses forever.

We can have a memorial and a street...it is absolutely not an either-or. Why don't these activists lobby the city (or better yet, a non-profit) to buy the now-closed Speedway property (NW corner) or the church parking lot (SW corner) and construct a permanent memorial there?
Could it be that the primary motivator for these bored college-age SJWs is not the memorial itself but in fact constant attention and confrontation-seeking behavior?
This last sentence really isn't helpful to your argument. Pretending that people in pain actually have secret bad motives isn't going to ever convince anyone.

twincitizen
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Re: George Floyd murder and aftermath

Postby twincitizen » June 3rd, 2021, 11:49 am

That was mostly in reference to all the young white people I see there. The ones turning away journalists, getting in people's faces, etc.


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