Public Street Blocked by Residents

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grrdanko
Landmark Center
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Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby grrdanko » July 12th, 2020, 11:12 pm

This bothers me more than it probably should:

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/07/ ... ess-crime/

I'm sympathetic to the residents of this block, but installing gates and posting no trespassing signs on a public street is not the solution. Public space is owned by the public. Anyone should be able to access it.

Am I a jerk to be bothered by this?

Cat349F
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby Cat349F » July 13th, 2020, 1:47 am

It reads as if the solution would be more police.

Hopefully, when the city enacts changes later this year or next, the social injustice specialist will be able to show these residents the error of their ways.
Unsustainable fossil burning fool.

tedlanda2571
Metrodome
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby tedlanda2571 » July 13th, 2020, 4:25 pm

The article about this in the Strib quotes some of the residents as looking to leave the city, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Once they move to the burbs this shouldn't be a problem.

uptownbro
Rice Park
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby uptownbro » July 13th, 2020, 5:31 pm

The police were able to negotiate a deal with the residents and the city to allow emergency vehicles through for now. The fact that the police do not have enough resources to patrol this area better then a random drive by is an issue.
We should always worry when residents are talking of leaving for the burbs.

Anondson
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby Anondson » July 14th, 2020, 7:48 am

Once they move to the burbs this shouldn't be a problem.
I’m pretty confident the MPD not doing crime prevention on the block will still be a problem.

alexschief
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby alexschief » July 14th, 2020, 8:43 am

It reads as if the solution would be more police.
I have a really hard time understanding why the solution to a failure of policing would be to have more police. That sounds like a one-way ratchet to me. Police doing a good job? We need more of them. Police doing a bad job? We need more of them.

I get the sense that the City Council is looking for a way out of that cycle, and to more critically analyze what services are needed an where. Perhaps what this block does need is more policing. But there's a resident quoted in the Strib's article who says that what the block really needs is more social services. Instead of "more police" being the only choice on the menu, I can imagine it would be better to have alternate strategies also available. That's my sense of what the City Council is doing.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby SurlyLHT » July 14th, 2020, 9:27 am

More people might see more of this if the City of Minneapolis doesn't do more to work with neighborhoods to make access more limited to their neighborhoods. The grid needs to be at least temporary broken to stop people from coming and in out of side streets shooting and buying/selling drugs. It isn't uncommon for me to see multiple cars come into my neighborhood do some sort of deal and both drive off. Also people use the side streets to avoid the MPD. When they can drive straight through a residential street with no medians or diverters they have alternative to busier streets where the police are more likely to be. There is access at Thomas Ave N to highway 55 so cars just exit the highway there and drive 40+ mph on what soon will be 25mph zone. There is rubber and oil on my street like you would see on Lyndale or Penn.

MPD also has no dedicated traffic squads, instead they use an existing squad when it isn't being used elsewhere. Which means during times like this there is very little traffic enforcement.

Relating to the conversation about Police. I think what we need most is effective policing. Not necessary more Police. When some kids tried shooting someone on my block the Officer came out for 15 mins and hardly talked to the neighbors who saw things including the car that was shot at take off. I talked to some neighbors and they basically said MPD doesn't do much unless someone gets shot. Well then how do your prevent homicides if you're not adequately investigating attempted murder?

Also there is a similar crime-ridden block on Knox with drug dealing and one lady said she literally knows how they bring the drugs from an apartment building to the corner and sell it and she calls MPD all the time. When the 4th Precinct Inspector was asked about it he was basically like, "Yeah, we know about it. We put a camera there. They wrecked our camera. Call 911." The thing is people are calling 911 but the MPD seems unable to do anything about this block after it was written up in the Strib a year ago. I don't know if there hands are tied or what's going on.

People love their neighborhoods and when the MPD and city aren't able to effectively protect them they block their streets and etc.

amiller92
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby amiller92 » July 14th, 2020, 10:24 am

More people might see more of this if the City of Minneapolis doesn't do more to work with neighborhoods to make access more limited to their neighborhoods. The grid needs to be at least temporary broken to stop people from coming and in out of side streets shooting and buying/selling drugs.
This seems likely to backfire, creating warrens with fewer eyes on the street and opportunities to do nefarious things out of sight.

EOst
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby EOst » July 14th, 2020, 1:03 pm

I have a really hard time understanding why the solution to a failure of policing would be to have more police. That sounds like a one-way ratchet to me. Police doing a good job? We need more of them. Police doing a bad job? We need more of them.
This is such a dumb argument. Literally no one is saying that the public safety setup in Minneapolis is completely adequate exactly as it is. The people who believe police work think there aren't enough police to do the job effectively, and to be frank, if you want to prevent a situation like this with police, you need the police resources to be able to have police patrol here more frequently and proactively build relationships. Pointing out that they are not adequately staffed to do this is not an argument against the efficacy of policing.

I don't have a position either way on MPD, but man, at least be thoughtful in engaging with the debate.

alexschief
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby alexschief » July 14th, 2020, 1:37 pm

Look, you don't need to bookend your argument with insults, it's really quite adequate to just make your point on its own merits.

I'd be more willing to buy the argument that Minneapolis issues with ineffective policing are a result of short-staffing if we didn't all see that they sent four cops to deal with a single reported counterfeit bill. Every government agency has been under constant pressure for four decades to use resources more efficiently, except there's usually one exception, in city after city, year after year. Something that might help settle this argument would be for an audit of the police force. How often are officers working in the field? How often are officers filing paperwork? How often are officers working redundantly? Here in Philadelphia, I can't tell you how often I walk or bike past officers just sitting in cars. Maybe they're doing something important, maybe not. I'd like to know!

I think the more fundamental point here, which is brought up by this article, is the question of how many police can possibly solve these issues in a satisfying way? This street's issues are fairly recent. If the cops crack down on this street, the action will move to another street. The residents in this article will be satisfied, but the residents elsewhere will not. It's one thing to want the cops to respond adequately to the issues in one spot at one time, but actually reducing or eliminating these issues citywide doesn't seem possible to me with the current policing model, unless you hire a truly impossible number of cops. If we don't step back and question the premise that the only way to solve an issue is more cops, it does become a one-way ratchet.

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Tiller
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby Tiller » July 14th, 2020, 2:19 pm

When is the last time MPD had to deal with any meaningful budget cuts?

MNdible
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby MNdible » July 14th, 2020, 3:20 pm

Per this recent Strib article:
MPD backers say that any cuts would only hurt the crime-fighting abilities of the department, which a little over a decade ago boasted an authorized strength of 916 cops but has shrunk by 28 in the ensuing years, despite the city’s growing population.
A Star Tribune analysis of FBI data found that in the decade between 2008 and 2017, the number of officers per capita dropped about 15% — a bigger decline than in other U.S. cities with similar populations and crime rates.

amiller92
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby amiller92 » July 15th, 2020, 9:13 am

I'd be more willing to buy the argument that Minneapolis issues with ineffective policing are a result of short-staffing if we didn't all see that they sent four cops to deal with a single reported counterfeit bill.
There was a Park Police officer there too. Pretty sure he came by himself because Park Police can apparently patrol on their own, while MPD officers always need a buddy, for some reason. Seems like one possibility to get more patrols is to change that.

Bob Stinson's Ghost
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby Bob Stinson's Ghost » July 15th, 2020, 5:12 pm

Single cop patrols were tried for a while and it was discovered that they behave even crazier when they're alone, so they went back to the buddy system.

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Tiller
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Re: Public Street Blocked by Residents

Postby Tiller » July 16th, 2020, 11:59 am

Single cop patrols were tried for a while and it was discovered that they behave even crazier when they're alone, so they went back to the buddy system.
It sounds like we could use more police officers that can behave themselves without adult supervision.


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