Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
sushisimo
Landmark Center
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby sushisimo » November 4th, 2012, 9:54 am

Are we honestly obsessing over Arcades, now? Really, guys? Arcades???

My gosh, what other useless frills do we wish Minneapolis had? An Obelisk, perhaps? A Monument Avenue?

Besides, doesn't Gaviidae already function essentially as a wide arcade?
:lol: *spit take*. Wait, Foshay is an obelisk! But seriously I agree, I think I'd rather get Gaviidae humming again before seeing a concept quite identical literally across the street. This would be a "Gaviidon't" Although, all this arcade talk has made me bust out my Arcadia tracks on iTunes, which was basically Duran Duran.

As for skyway connection from LRT, I'm 'eh' about that being a priority. Think about getting off the train at Nicollet Mall station in the middle of the block. I don't care how bad the weather is, I'd rather just cross the street into 5th Street Towers, rather than snake around the track crossings and into this complex. Or, just hustle your buns down Nicollet a ways like somebody who grew a pair.

John
Capella Tower
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby John » November 4th, 2012, 12:16 pm

If you look at the rendering of Nicollet Residences, the building has a clear connection with the skyway from Nicollet Mall, in addition to virtually direct access to the LRT. I think this will be a great amenity for people living here , and will likely attract apartment tenants.

I think there is some misunderstanding of Wedgeguy's statements for this block. He's just offering a fantasy conceptual idea of what he feels is a better design for the block. So why get bent out of shape and hypercritical about it? A pragmatic and literal interpretation of reality is only one viewpoint of many, many, other perspectives that are just as valid and true.


I think its important for people on this forum to remember that most of our great modern buildings downtown resulted ( i.e the IDS center) from people taking a risk and going out on a limb to do something great. It is NOT frivolous to think big and imagine possibilty and potential. That creative attitude in urban design is what helps makes a city great and unique.

TroyGBiv
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby TroyGBiv » November 4th, 2012, 9:59 pm

John - you raise a great point - we are better off proposing and building "what if's" than settling for "just enough"... We need vision for downtown not just construction companies just filling in vacant lots. It would be great for this block to work harder and be a bit more ambitious in building our city. There is no question that the 2 Gaviidae's are in need of stores and a few hundred thousand weekday shoppers... that being said, getting anything major under construction will build momentum... having two talk residential structures going up on the north and south side of town might just get the ball rolling. I do think that there is a very unique kind of excitement when a very tall building is proposed and looking at current trends globally - a very tall mixed use structure might be a very shrewd move...

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 5th, 2012, 8:45 am

For-profit developers don't like "what if's".

nickmgray
Union Depot
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby nickmgray » November 5th, 2012, 3:42 pm

While I'm a huge supporter of having retail options available on both street and skyway levels, I don't think there will be a huge demand at this location since it's on the far edge of the mall. That being said, I think this would be a perfect spot for a street level restaurant or bar with outdoor seating. It would be nice is there was another food option a bit closer to library.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby mattaudio » November 5th, 2012, 4:30 pm

Maybe the way to create that demand is to bring more corporate jobs to the north end of the mall like Target has done at the south end... how about a new signature tower on the block north of here, across from the Library :)

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby Wedgeguy » November 5th, 2012, 6:30 pm

While I'm a huge supporter of having retail options available on both street and skyway levels, I don't think there will be a huge demand at this location since it's on the far edge of the mall. That being said, I think this would be a perfect spot for a street level restaurant or bar with outdoor seating. It would be nice is there was another food option a bit closer to library.
There should be a restraunt on the end of the building which would face Nicollet. The bar would be located on the skyway level with a decent terrace to over look the mall. The restraunt, at ground level, would be at one of the widest parts of the mall so there would be great space for outdoor seating. Because of its location on the mall the seating would see plenty of sun light around noon time, with no massive tower to block the midday sun.
Yes there needs to be another office tower to the east of the Library. That block could support both an office tower and a residential tower. From the earlier statements I read after my speculation, you would think that Minneapolis is a stagnate city where nothing ever changes. Hello North Loop, Milwaukee Road depot district, St. Anthony Main area, these are all area that have gone through start and stops with redevelopment. Sometimes you need a catylast to get things going. Who says five years from now that DT Minneapolis will not have a greater share of the shopping dollars. How many new consumers will we have within walking distance of the mall? Most will be coming from the north with some coming from the south. There is still a possiblity that the DTE will get a catylast to get housing going. Biggest problem with DTE is we are looking at full block developments and not just fill in.
Don't settle with what is here today. You have to look at the potential that you will be having in the near future. Once 222, Velo, The other north Loop buildings that are still under construction, the old Soo Line Building, and the Magellan building are up. You have the potential for a whole different shopping outlook. We will hope that the owner of City Center will look at their asset and decide that making the Nicollet Mall facade more attractive and engaging so it will make people want to go in and shop. There are already good stores in there for those that know about them. But who wants to go into a dive bar when they don't know that it truly is a great place for the best of something in town. You fix it up and you get more people interested in checking it out. Yes I look at things from a pie in the sky attitude, But some of those pie in the skys become your catylast, your landmarks, IDS CENTER anyone. Why did that get built, because we had leaders back then that look to the future and not just until next quarters profit. They wanted something that would be a symbol of a great city and that would hold it's value over time. You go cheap you become a B class building down the road. You lose your future potential to sell at a greater price.
We need to be looking outside the box for answers and not pigeon holing things to fit current conditions. 20 years ago we had 4 major office towers all being built at once. That will not happen again, but times will change and the ecomomy will turn around. There will again be demand for office space, living space and entertainment space. When you make your city someplace that people want to visit, work , or live in you need to invest wisely with a look to the future as well. There, I'll get off my soap box and listen to what others think.

Unity77
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby Unity77 » November 6th, 2012, 10:19 am

There will again be demand for office space, living space and entertainment space. When you make your city someplace that people want to visit, work , or live in you need to invest wisely with a look to the future as well. There, I'll get off my soap box and listen to what others think.
I disagree. The Twin Cities area is all about sprawl. Most Minnesotans and those who are moving to the metro area desire the likes of Forest Lake, Hudson, Lakeville, and Delano. The majority of them hate working and shopping downtown for whatever reason(s) they may have, but are willing to visit for entertainment purposes only (sports and theater). Our state agencies are guilty too. Until this mindset changes, there will be little demand for new office space.

Tyler
Foshay Tower
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby Tyler » November 6th, 2012, 10:55 am

I'd say that mindset is changing.
Towns!

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby Wedgeguy » November 6th, 2012, 10:58 am

There will again be demand for office space, living space and entertainment space. When you make your city someplace that people want to visit, work , or live in you need to invest wisely with a look to the future as well. There, I'll get off my soap box and listen to what others think.
I disagree. The Twin Cities area is all about sprawl. Most Minnesotans and those who are moving to the metro area desire the likes of Forest Lake, Hudson, Lakeville, and Delano. The majority of them hate working and shopping downtown for whatever reason(s) they may have, but are willing to visit for entertainment purposes only (sports and theater). Our state agencies are guilty too. Until this mindset changes, there will be little demand for new office space.
Hate to burst your bubble, but what you say has been true for 30 years now. But now many are not looking at commuting 30-50 minutes to work. Maybe if you are married with children you are looking at that senerio, but the younger people and the empty nesters are looking to move back to the city. Why if nobody wants to live in the city would there be over 10,000 apartment units being proposed and now well over 2000 units under construction here in the city. Yes I'm counting the nearly 800 units that are under construction in Uptown. Downtown has well over 1,500 units going up in at least 6 different projects around downtown.

I've lived in the Twin Cities for over 30 years now. I've been watching the developement of Office towers, the condo craze, the amenities here in this city. When you can site 30 years of progress that I have witnessed then you can tell me I'm full of it. But my friend I've seen the development cycles, I've seen neighborhood here in the city that have been fixed up and have come back to life. I've seen the North loop go from a dump and large brownfield sites to some of the most desired buildings and neighborhood in the city. I saw the Milwaukee Road depot redeveloped, the music school added, the Guthrie added, and all those warehouses along the river are now high end condos. Elliott neighborhood with the addition for Grant Park and Skyscape has help to be a catalyst to getting more housing and increased property values in the area. Who would have thought that they would have ever thought about putting office space out by what is now the Twins Stadium. Guess someone can see outside the box, because 500,000 ft of office is no small chunk of change. That is a major office building. Some of you in here just need to take off your tunnel vision goggles and look at the big picture. That picture includes the past, the present and most of all the future! Soap box speech done again.

I hope that there are some other visionaries out there to help to push the boundries and make developers think twice about what they can really accomplish!

Unity77
Landmark Center
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby Unity77 » November 6th, 2012, 12:22 pm

Hate to burst your bubble, but what you say has been true for 30 years now. But now many are not looking at commuting 30-50 minutes to work. Maybe if you are married with children you are looking at that senerio, but the younger people and the empty nesters are looking to move back to the city. Why if nobody wants to live in the city would there be over 10,000 apartment units being proposed and now well over 2000 units under construction here in the city. Yes I'm counting the nearly 800 units that are under construction in Uptown. Downtown has well over 1,500 units going up in at least 6 different projects around downtown.
No worries. You aren't bursting any bubbles.

The fact remains that the core cities' (MPLS & STPL) share of both population and workers is continuing to decline. As far as the number of new housing units is concerned, it's more than likely being offset by population losses in areas like North Minneapolis.

BTW, suburbanization has been taking place for more than 30 years.

lordmoke
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby lordmoke » November 6th, 2012, 12:45 pm

I hate to contribute to off topic banter, but Minneapolis has added more population in the last year than it lost throughout the last ten. On top of that, there was a great article in the Strib the other day about the many problems exurbs are starting to face now that they're becoming less desirable to live in.

John
Capella Tower
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby John » November 6th, 2012, 1:01 pm

I hate to contribute to off topic banter, but Minneapolis has added more population in the last year than it lost throughout the last ten. On top of that, there was a great article in the Strib the other day about the many problems exurbs are starting to face now that they're becoming less desirable to live in.
Yes , and this is a national trend. In addition, the trend will continue with the periphery of urban areas becoming poorer and the concentration of more affluent people increasing in the core.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 6th, 2012, 1:18 pm

I think the report stated that, for the first time in 50-60+ years the central cities are gaining more population than the suburbs in the metro area!

612transplant
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby 612transplant » November 6th, 2012, 4:29 pm

I hate to contribute to off topic banter, but Minneapolis has added more population in the last year than it lost throughout the last ten.
I hate to contribute to the off topic banter, as well, but:

If Minneapolis added more population last year than it lost throughout the last ten, that wouldn't be saying much....if the census is to be believed, the city lost only forty people from 2000-2010.

I suspect that both sides of this argument are essentially correct: the demographics of the city are getting younger, and it is more "singles dominated" than it has been in the past. However, there is a definite exodus off the Northside-- exacerbated by the mortgage crisis there. Many Northside neighborhoods experienced 15-20% population decline in the last census period, while northern suburbs became major magnets for Northside migrants.

Think about it: condos and apartments have been going up within the city for some time now (albeit not at the rate they are going up right now). Why has population stayed stable? Because the net gains downtown and on the Southside are offset by the net losses on the North Side, Nordeast, and on the fringe, "established" neighborhoods of the far South Side, where the demographic is older and retiring. That simple.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 6th, 2012, 6:52 pm

They don't count Actual population more than once a decade.....everything you see year in and year out is a projection, and many are largely based on previous Census results (not local projections though). I would never rely on say, a 2012 estimate of the population of Minneapolis.....at least not to prove any points. Unfortunately we'll have to wait 8 more years for solid data.

aguaman
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby aguaman » November 8th, 2012, 8:36 am

For your information, the American Community Survey is ongoing and reliable:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/featur ... 2/acs-faq/

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 8th, 2012, 9:30 am

For your information, the American Community Survey is ongoing and reliable:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/featur ... 2/acs-faq/
Right, but not official.

I DID say that local projections can be fairly accurate and dependable, but they still aren't technically official. We're really beating a dead horse here.

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Nick
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby Nick » November 10th, 2012, 12:25 pm

From the Nicollet and 5th parking lot, just now. Sorry if it displays huge from my phone, I'm just excited :)
Nick Magrino
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mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Nicollet Residences - (455 Nicollet Mall)

Postby mnmike » November 10th, 2012, 12:33 pm

Well, that certainly did bode well last time we saw that in a parking lot! I share your excitement...won't it be nice to have two projects of this size going up downtown, along with the new major Grocer? Along with all the other projects happening right now, I really think downtown will move up a notch after this boom! Now, if only Bob Lux would stop pouting and sell or do something with Block e aside from "look for office tenants that don't need windows".


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