Roseville / Rosedale - General Topics

[pannierpacker]

The former Country Side restaurant in Roseville is getting replaced by a brand new building, a Pizza Luce! Who would have thought an urban chain like this would have made it's way out to Roseville? Hopefully, it does well, since restaurants in this location have struggled historically. Pizza Luce has historically attracted lots of cyclists. Maybe something better could happen with Snelling Ave? Perhaps a trail could be installed from Lydia to County Road C along the former service road grading? MN-DOT and Roseville, are you listening?

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... nsion.html

[mattaudio]

Luce has expanded to St. Louis Park and Richfield in recent years, and I've heard they've done fine.

[Aville_37]

Unfortunately, I think Luce's quality has gone way down. Recently had a pizza delivered last week from the S. Mpls./Lyndale location and barely finished it off - no flavor whatsoever. Perhaps due to it's expansion model, or being spoiled by the flavors/quality of other pizzerias - Punch, Lola?

[Anondson]

Rosedale is expanding. New anchor, parking deck.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... ml?ana=twt

[mamundsen]

I wish they would find a way to rework that area of parking and the upper parking on the other side of the recent expansion. Both have horrible circulation. This looks like it will make it even worse.

Or is that what the article means by adding a parking deck? Is that a 1 level ramp like what is between Macy's and Herbergers?

(My wife hates when I just park at the back and say "Let's walk!")

[mulad]

I'd like to see them move the transit center as part of this. The current location off the end of the AMC building has always been very uncomfortable to me, so I almost always wait over at the stop by Macaroni Grill and Big Bowl (which is close to where the transit center used to be before the east wing was remodeled/added).

A new transit center could fit in that wedge between the new building and the east wing. Buses could get close to the core of the mall with much less travel time penalty compared to the existing loop from the AMC-adjacent transit center, over to Big Bowl, south and back around the outside edge of the parking lot.

[twincitizen]

The BizJournal article linked above takes a guess that the new anchor is Von Maur, by process of elimination.

This 2008 article suggested the same: http://www.twincities.com/ci_9007214

Von Maur is based in Iowa and has been growing aggressively, at least compared to pretty much every other department store chain. That 7-year old PiPress article suggests that Von Maur is slightly more upscale than Macy's. Is that correct? The article also suggested (again, in 2008) that they wanted to open multiple locations around the metro, but the biggest barrier was finding the appropriate space or development. It seems strange then that they did not jump at the chance to get in MOA when Bloomingdales closed.

As for Rosedale, thinking long-term, I'm not sure I agree with the strategy to add another anchor. Honestly, between JCPenny and Herbergers, something has to give. They are the same goddamn thing. Kohls is in close proximity too, but I believe they are slightly further downscale from JCP & Herbergers. A better long-term outcome for Rosedale would be to replace JCP or Herbergers with Von Maur. These department stores are pretty much all living on borrowed time. There's no way that JCP, Herbergers, and Kohls are all still competing in this market in 10 years.

[Mdcastle]

I wouldn't count Kohl's, out, they seem to have a vastly different demographic than other department stores. They're usually quite busy when I'm shopping there, and I do see younger people shopping there. They normally prefer big boxes rather than mall anchors though, you can shop there without making an all day production of it like doing the mall thing, but still a better variety than Target or Walmart.

JCP is for people my father's age and older. I've never shopped their myself.

[QuietBlue]

I shop at JCP once in a while; they can have some good deals and my GF likes their housewares. But we are often on the younger side of the people shopping there.

The thing about JCP is that they know they need to change, it's that their core customer base doesn't want them to, even though that customer base is getting smaller each year. There have been some bright spots recently (such as their Sephora partnership), but ultimately I think they will experience the long gradual decline that many other retailers have gone through.

[FISHMANPET]

They tried to change when they hired the Apple guy and he ditched all the sales and brought in a lot of good clothing items, but the people that love sales were terrified of the new change, and the people they were targetting still didn't think JCP was cool enough to shop at. Pretty much no way to reinvent the brand at this point, it's reputation is so bad among young people and any attempt to change that will alienate the core customer base, and the board won't have that.

[at40man]

Ever since Dayton's was absorbed into what eventually became Macy's, the area has lacked a higher-end department store and Von Maur fits that bill. I was walking through Rosedale a couple months ago and thinking that the decor was beginning to look a bit dated, though obviously cared for and in good condition. I do wish they'd bring those neon roses back at the entrances, though!

A better long-term outcome for Rosedale would be to replace JCP or Herbergers with Von Maur. These department stores are pretty much all living on borrowed time. There's no way that JCP, Herbergers, and Kohls are all still competing in this market in 10 years.

Anchor stores in malls usually are not leased out -- they generally are owned outright. Thus, it makes replacing nearly impossible unless the store pulls out of the mall and sells the parcel. This is what happened when Mervyn's vacated the space that "The Plaza" is in now.

[mulad]

Ah, that's definitely part of what's going on. I got bored enough to get Silverlight working under Linux (Pipelight) and fired up the MapRamsey tool. It looks like the original parcels for the main mall formed an "X" across the area, with the anchor tenants fitting in as wedges in between. The Macy's and J.C. Penney's parcels are owned by companies that have fairly clear names, though the Herberger's plot is owned by Bonstores Realty Two LLC -- I'm not sure what the deal is there.

[FISHMANPET]

Herbergers is owned by "The Bon-Ton Stores" which owns a bunch of regional department stores around the country operating them under their own nameplates. So actually it's a pretty clear name in that context.

I don't know why but the history of department stores is fascinating to me.

[Anondson]

Pacal shuts down.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... ml?ana=twt

[Wedgeguy]

Pacal shuts down.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... ml?ana=twt

Other than the brownfield clean up, this will be interesting as to what type of replacement going on to this acreage. Due to it location it would be great for office or warehouse show room. I'd hope for something more dense, but I can see by what is around it what might fit in as far are possible replacements.

[MNdible]

From the articles, Pacal had sold off that land previously and most of the space was already being rented out by other industrial users, so I'd speculate that at least near-term, we'll see few changes in the area.

[Anondson]

I hold hope the 280/35w interchange gets improved.

[PreppyPicnic]

I have some comments regarding Rosedale's new anchor expansion. I have worked at both Macy's and Von Maur.

Von Maur is a bit more high end than Macy's. They only sell brand name merchandise, no store brands. They also don't do huge sales or coupons. The store is always extremely clean and well maintained and is relaxing to shop in. We always got comments like "this store reminds me of the old Dayton's"! Customers from the St. Paul side of the metro frequently expressed interest in Von Maur opening another location closer to them.

I personally think there is room for Von Maur's expansion in the Twin Cities market. The Eden Prairie store does well, and there are definitely enough people that would shop at a second store.

However, Von Maur owns a small store in Rosedale called Dry Goods. It sells juniors' clothes and accessories. It's really cute, with old fashioned decor and a boutique-y feel. To my knowledge, Von Maur does not have any setups where both a Dry Goods and a Von Maur operate in the same mall. It will be interesting to see if they choose to expand to Rosedale, and if so, what would happen with Dry Goods. I guess only time will tell!

[Anondson]

Rojo Mexican Grill expanding to Rosedale for its third store.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... ville.html

It is part of Macaroni Grill desiring to get out of its stores near Southdale and Rosedale.

[pannierpacker]

Pacal shuts down.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... ml?ana=twt

Other than the brownfield clean up, this will be interesting as to what type of replacement going on to this acreage. Due to it location it would be great for office or warehouse show room. I'd hope for something more dense, but I can see by what is around it what might fit in as far are possible replacements.

Pacal was pretty much the only large enough business to oppose MN-DOT from removing the signal at 280 and Broadway. I can't imagine the rest of the businesses in this area are very organized as a team (has anyone heard of a business coalition in an industrial neighborhood?). I'm hopeful that the intersection gets rebuilt. I'd ideally like to see pedestrian access across 280 at Broadway again and also along the western edge of the golf course. This could be potentially put in at the same time as an interchange at 280 and Broadway. Alternatively, they could just kill the left turn onto Broadway, as even that would be an improvement to the region. I'm also thinking there has to be something better than a warehouse that could sit on the corner of that intersection. Rezoning time, Minneapolis?