Why? If you can afford to fly you can afford a passport. There are other options to get to Chicago.Agreed. It's also a real problem to tell people to get a passport just to travel to Chicago.
REAL ID Compliance
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- IDS Center
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Re: REAL ID Compliance
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- Foshay Tower
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Re: REAL ID Compliance
You can fly round trip to Chicago for like $80. A passport is $120. I guess you can always say if you are rich you can afford the extra $120, and the poor can ride a bus, but I guess I see that as a problem. But you don't and that is fine.
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- IDS Center
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Re: REAL ID Compliance
That's $120 over 10 years.
- FISHMANPET
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Re: REAL ID Compliance
Thank God you can pay that cost over 10 years instead of needing that sum all at once upfront.
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- IDS Center
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Re: REAL ID Compliance
I just really have a hard time believing that people who fly to Chicago can't afford a passport. I don't ever fly that route. Do lots of poor people take it?
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- IDS Center
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Re: REAL ID Compliance
REAL ID causes way more problems for poor people than requiring a passport to travel by air does.
Re: REAL ID Compliance
Poor people fly to lots of places, and often not by choice. And while $120 is less than the cost of most plane tickets, it's still another expense on top of everything else, especially when it's a trip that's being made out of obligation. When you're financially stretched, it's not always the cost of any one thing that's the issue; it's the cost of everything combined -- that's what people miss when they say "This thing only costs X, what's the big deal?". And that's not even getting into the absurdity of requiring a document meant for international travel for domestic flights.
I have a passport, and I think it's a good idea for people to have them, but it shouldn't be required to fly domestically. Not that I think REAL ID is okay either.
I have a passport, and I think it's a good idea for people to have them, but it shouldn't be required to fly domestically. Not that I think REAL ID is okay either.
Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016
You can get a passport card these days.But a passport doesn't fit in your wallet! Think of how inconvenient it is to not be able to fly a thousand miles away without having to bring some kind of small bag in addition to your wallet!
I've also got a Global Entry card, but filling out an online application, paying the fee and going to the airport for and "interview" and to be fingerprinted does not seem like a reasonable burden to place on interstate travel.
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- IDS Center
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Re: REAL ID Compliance
Well, consider me educated then. I hardly ever fly myself so I honestly didn't know lots of poor people do.Poor people fly to lots of places, and often not by choice. And while $120 is less than the cost of most plane tickets, it's still another expense on top of everything else, especially when it's a trip that's being made out of obligation.
I still think REAL ID is a very bad idea. It would be better for the state to pass some kind of passport subsidy for the poor.
Re: REAL ID Compliance
I don’t see how subsidies for poor people to get passports is somehow a better option than REAL ID. Many of the privacy concerns of a passport are no different than those of REAL ID. What exactly is the purpose of free and open borders between the states if you have to have a document—intended for international travel—to fly between them?
If what we REALLY mean is undocumented poor people, then that’s a different can of worms with alternative solutions that should probably be worked out.
If what we REALLY mean is undocumented poor people, then that’s a different can of worms with alternative solutions that should probably be worked out.
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- Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: REAL ID Compliance
I'm not saying I buy this, but I've heard people make the claim that it should be irrelevant who is actually flying. If people are screened for weapons and dangerous articles, why should the government care who they are?
Re: REAL ID Compliance
But you can't track them without identifying them. They've got to file all the data they collect under something!
Re: REAL ID Compliance
There's no such thing as perfect screening and wanting to take a closer look at people you believe are higher-risk makes perfect sense.I'm not saying I buy this, but I've heard people make the claim that it should be irrelevant who is actually flying. If people are screened for weapons and dangerous articles, why should the government care who they are?
Not that there aren't all kinds of civil liberties issues in there.
Re: REAL ID Compliance
Privacy is obsolete.
Re: REAL ID Compliance
Then I'm sure there'll be no trouble in amending the Constitution first.
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- Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: REAL ID Compliance
Constitutional amendment for what?
Re: REAL ID Compliance
Violating the constitutional right to privacy (4th amendment), apparently.Privacy is obsolete.
Re: REAL ID Compliance
I would assume it’s probably not totally outside the government’s interest to know who’s on an airplane should it end up crashing or being lost. It’s certainly in the government’s interest to know who’s flying into or out of the country.I'm not saying I buy this, but I've heard people make the claim that it should be irrelevant who is actually flying. If people are screened for weapons and dangerous articles, why should the government care who they are?
Of course, you technically CAN get through an airport without an ID. I had a friend who forgot hers a couple of months ago on a trip. It just meant a really, really intrusive pat down.
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Re: REAL ID Compliance
One can look at it the other way too: Why do we need a special ID to travel between free and open borders between states? Passport or REAL ID, the fact is that one needs "papers" to fly, even within one state. If one objects to passports to fly, one ought to object to REAL ID to fly as well (or any ID, really).I don’t see how subsidies for poor people to get passports is somehow a better option than REAL ID. Many of the privacy concerns of a passport are no different than those of REAL ID. What exactly is the purpose of free and open borders between the states if you have to have a document—intended for international travel—to fly between them?
For better or for worse, we've decided to require special papers to fly. The way I see it, best to keep the onerous nature of those papers to a minimum. At least requiring a passport to fly won't impact your ability to do other daily activities (see below).
Obviously the effect on undocumented people is significant with REAL ID and morally, I can't ignore it.If what we REALLY mean is undocumented poor people, then that’s a different can of worms with alternative solutions that should probably be worked out.
My suspicion is the air travel requirement was motivated as much by forcing states to use REAL ID and "root out" undocumented people as it was for any actual security benefit.
What alternative exists for undocumented people besides the status quo or REAL ID? If you require REAL ID to fly, undocumented people will not be able to fly. Even if one considers that ok, it's pretty clear that the use of REAL ID is going to expand to the point where everyone will need one just to get things done. How long is the state going to support both the current driver's license and the "enhanced" version? They'll just go to REAL ID and all of a sudden undocumented people won't be able drive either.
Re: REAL ID Compliance - MNLARS upgrade
Do we have a thread for the MNLARS mess? This is the best one I could think of since the update will impact REAL ID. For those in the IT industry, is this exceptionally high cost or does it sound about right? Adding 63 call center staff... at $6M is almost $100k salary! That must include some benefit costs.
https://mn.gov/mnit/newsroom/#/detail/appId/1/id/325465
https://mn.gov/mnit/newsroom/#/detail/appId/1/id/325465
State of Minnesota Releases Project Roadmap for Minnesota Licensing and Registration System (MNLARS)
DPS and MNIT launched MNLARS in July 2017 to replace a 30-year-old legacy system to process vehicle title and registration transactions, but the system has encountered technical complications since that time.
The roadmap will cost an additional $43 million which the Legislature must appropriate to complete MNLARS defect fixes and add necessary features by December 2019. An estimated $37 million in additional funding is needed to make critical system improvements and enhancements. $6 million is needed for customer service capacity increases at DPS in the current biennium. This investment would provide the hardware, software, and human resources necessary to support an aggressive delivery roadmap with concurrent work streams – the approach that is needed to address multiple stakeholder priorities simultaneously, and to manage large volumes of customer service demand through the rollout of REAL ID.
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