Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
SamHartmen

Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby SamHartmen » March 29th, 2016, 12:27 pm

Quick question, I know the last station was removed but do the final designs allow for a potential extension if funds came available? Yes, I'm sure it's doubtful, so I'm not wanting to debate that please. The last station looks to have a rather tight turn if an extension were ever to happen, does that mean it's too tight of a turn making any potential extension downright unrealistic given the station would have to be moved?

MobJob
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby MobJob » March 29th, 2016, 1:01 pm

MobJob: these are probably what you're looking for.
Those are helpful--thank you!

Anondson
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Anondson » April 3rd, 2016, 9:44 pm

Nice examination of the affordable housing picture along the panned line and its future.

http://www.startribune.com/affordable-h ... 374434431/

Not sure why Edina was even asked about this, surprised this rent increases at Meadowbrook didn't make it in.

grant1simons2
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby grant1simons2 » April 4th, 2016, 12:09 pm


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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby VacantLuxuries » April 18th, 2016, 8:42 am

http://www.startribune.com/franken-urge ... 376000141/

Comes with the usual fact-free discussion of transit in the comments, free of charge.

Is it time to start worrying for the SWLRT?

David Greene
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » April 18th, 2016, 9:37 am

Is it time to start worrying for the SWLRT?
Man, I don't know. We've had CAC meetings cancelled since we got the new car so I don't have any updates for the past six months or so.

Will the Met Council or the county come through and patch the hole until we get a more favorable situation in the legislature? Who knows...

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby VacantLuxuries » April 18th, 2016, 9:48 am

That's what I was wondering, if the county or the CTIB would step in to prevent it all being for nothing. Especially since CTIB is willing to spend 80% of the cost of the Riverview line, so it's not like the 30% portion is a hard line for them. Split the 10% between the county, CTIB, and Met Council and it's not insurmountable.

grant1simons2
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby grant1simons2 » April 18th, 2016, 9:52 am

The woman I'm working for just finished reviewing the 90% architectural with me about a month and a half ago. There's so much money already spent that it'd be stupid for them to drop it now.

MNdible
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby MNdible » April 18th, 2016, 9:53 am

Even though Dayton has been (in some ways) the worst friend this line could have, I do think that he's fully committed to getting this funded, and I just don't see this session coming to its denouement without some sort of a solution. At this point, I don't think a comprehensive transportation bill is likely, so it maybe ends up in the bonding bill or perhaps just straight cash, homey, from the surplus. The DFL may have to give up more than they'd like in exchange for it, but Franken's right -- even though this line has some flaws, it's too good to walk away from and get nothing.

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Silophant » April 18th, 2016, 9:55 am

The woman I'm working for just finished reviewing the 90% architectural with me about a month and a half ago. There's so much money already spent that it'd be stupid for them to drop it now.
Well, yes, but it's not like the Legislature is above doing stupid things for minor political gain.
Joey Senkyr
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby HiawathaGuy » April 18th, 2016, 10:01 am

I really hope the GOP loses their asses in this fall's election. This obstruction on a comprehensive transportation bill is total BS and Daudt will hopefully feel the repercussions of his stance. I just cannot understand how other far more conservative legislatures in other states can pass comprehensive bills, but here - it's like people lose their shit. It's just plain dumb.

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 18th, 2016, 10:03 am

The woman I'm working for just finished reviewing the 90% architectural with me about a month and a half ago. There's so much money already spent that it'd be stupid for them to drop it now.
Just going to disagree in general here. Sunk costs are sunk. It's always a good strategy to evaluate whether spending the next $XXXm dollars is the right move. Obviously, if the thing is half-built it might make sense to pay attention to sunk costs, but even then... Would we have liked that argument for I-335 after all those homes in NE were bought and cleared?

mattaudio
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » April 18th, 2016, 10:21 am

In more modern times, the Sunk Cost Fallacy has haunted us too. The St. Croix Bridge, the bluff-to-bluff freeway version under construction, was popularized in part because plans had been in place for decades. People pushed it as "let's finally get this done" rather than "maybe there's a reason we were fine without this since it was first pitched in the 1960s."

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Tiller
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Tiller » April 18th, 2016, 10:33 am

I dunno about you guys, but I'm perfectly fine pushing the sunk-cost fallacy if it helps get this built. Transit needs all the help it can get here.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 18th, 2016, 11:29 am

Then say that for SWLRT, not "we've spent $150m (or whatever we've spent so far) on design and outreach WE CAN'T TURN BACK NOW." Like I said, it'd be a different thing if we actually had 50% of the track laid and LRVs purchased to say let's abandon this infrastructure (which could have liability and maintenance costs of its own) but all of a sudden the tunnel costs jump another $500m. If anything, I would argue that the $150m (or whatever we've spent so far) spent on studies and DEIS and FEIS and everything else we've done so far but don't have a single foot of track laid is maybe a big problem with how we plan and build transit in this country.

Anyway, I'd be all for the county/Met Council/CTIB upping their share in exchange for not having outstate legislators use is as an example of state waste to hang over the DFL's head for the next ?20? years.

ProspectPete
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby ProspectPete » April 18th, 2016, 1:04 pm

I hope this thing finally dies. Or some one takes it out back and shoots it. Can we just call it a loss and stop throwing good money after bad?

The logic that we must stay the course reminds me of that *awesome* $400 billion F-35 fighter jet that can barely fly.... but now we are stuck with.

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby VacantLuxuries » April 18th, 2016, 1:12 pm

Despite the lost opportunities in the planning stages, SWLRT would still serve an important purpose in our regional transit system.

Unlike the defense department, the Met Council actually has consequences if they royally screw up - namely never getting funding for future projects. There's a graveyard of commuter rail lines that are the direct result of Northstar's shortcomings.

acs
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby acs » April 18th, 2016, 1:28 pm

^like what? Red Rock is going forward as a bus line with an option to be converted to rail later. Dan Patch was gag-ordered long before Northstar. Rush line and Gateway were larger studies incorporating many options besides just Commuter rail, options which eventually were deemed better. The regional rail proposals were never the domain of the Met Council, MNDOT's rail division has been keeping them alive on their own but they have never gained traction.

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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Silophant » April 29th, 2016, 7:48 am

Seven DFL senators will refuse to vote for a bonding bill that doesn't include funding for SWLRT.

Nice to see that the group mostly represents areas not served by SWLRT, and even includes an outstate senator.
Joey Senkyr
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Re: Southwest LRT (Green Line Extension)

Postby Qhaberl » April 29th, 2016, 11:08 am

Thats so awsome!!! It shows that people are starting to really notice the inpact that transit will have on local, regional, and state economy.


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