America's Favorite Cities

[Nathan]

I rather enjoy Travel and Leisure's ranking of cities. Last year I was disappointed TC didn't score better. This year we did quite well... I think it is CRAZY that visitors consistently, from year to year, rate MPLS STP much higher than the locals do. I tell people all the time that they don't realize what they have here...

http://www.travelandleisure.com/america ... is-st-paul

[widin007]

Agreed many of my friends ALWAYS talk shit about Minneapolis yet most have never lived anywhere else, while those who have lived other places, me included, know exactly how great our little midwest town is

[Nathan]

Lonely planet put a pretty amazing piece... maybe someday we will have some better tourism Top 10 US destinations 2013!

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/usa/travel- ... les/77583#

[woofner]

Lonely planet put a pretty amazing piece... maybe someday we will have some better tourism Top 10 US destinations 2013!

Not really fair to include to include American Samoa...

And I think you're more likely to run into Prince at the Target in Chanhassen than at First Ave.

[Nathan]

Lonely planet put a pretty amazing piece... maybe someday we will have some better tourism Top 10 US destinations 2013!

Not really fair to include to include American Samoa...

And I think you're more likely to run into Prince at the Target in Chanhassen than at First Ave.

When my band played the Popsicle Music Festival at 1st Ave Prince was there! (But I do agree...)

[Minneapolisite]

Yeah, the Mpls experience is pretty much an unknown for most, but at the same time, I wouldn't want city or state run tourism ads that will inevitably make us look square and leave most people outside of the region thinking we're another typical flat Midwestern city with very limited amenities (Kanasas City, Omaha, or our rhyming neighbor to the south: Indianapolis) when we're something of the anti-Midwest Midwestern city. Top ten lists touting Mpls' liberalism have done more than any tourism ads in projecting a positive image of the city: most bike-friendly, most gay friendly, and it's even one of the top ten most walkable American cities thanks to so many bustling independent businesses concentrated in and around Downtown. My friends from Columbus, especially the one who visited when it was warmer and the bike share was active, were impressed by Downtown (Nicollet, Hennepin and 1st Ave) not to mention Uptown and the nearby lakes. Even they were expecting another Ohio-like city, so it's not just the coasts that don't know, but probably everyone two states removed from MN.

[Nathan]

I always like these videos to show friends...

[BBvideo 425,350]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDH5il6 ... w&index=14[/BBvideo]

[BBvideo 425,350]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njKkzvV ... Sw&index=1[/BBvideo]

[Le Sueur]

Thanks for the videos foto! I've seen the GreaterMSP campaign before but not the 7and60 vid, it's a well put together piece.

[Visualizer]

It's all true except the natives tend to be insular when it comes to outsiders. Although the region is relatively diverse, it is a segregated kind of diversity with ethnic communities enjoying little visibility when compared to the native white population. As a foreigner, one is faced with stark choices: Blend in OR stand out, but then you won't be as accepted. And there is not much of a grey area in between.

[NickP]

Visualizer, could you expand on that? I am interested in what you mean, and don't quite grasp what you are trying to say. Cheers.

[David Greene]

It's all true except the natives tend to be insular when it comes to outsiders.

Not just outsiders. I was away for a decade and had trouble re-integrating when I came back. It's _really_ hard to meet people here because everyone has their high-school cliques, etc.

Although the region is relatively diverse, it is a segregated kind of diversity with ethnic communities enjoying little visibility when compared to the native white population.

Segregated, hell yes!

But I wouldn't say people of color lack visibility. It is often negative visibility, however.

Still, the demographics are changing fast and not just in the cities. Brooklyn Park now has the largest percentage of non-whites of any city in the state.

Blend in OR stand out, but then you won't be as accepted. And there is not much of a grey area in between.

Oh, you can stand out, you just have to find the people who share your worldview. But it is hard to find those people.

[Nick]

I've never quite understood the idea that Minnesota is hard to move to. I moved every couple years until turning 18, and moving in general is a bitch. I moved to Minnesota twice, once in eighth grade (leaving after tenth) and then back for college, when no one I knew from my earlier stay was going to the U. It wasn't particularly hard to find likeable people. Is it that much easier in Chicago or Seattle or Paris or Beijing to walk up to someone and suddenly be friends?

[Visualizer]

Is it that much easier in Chicago or Seattle or Paris or Beijing to walk up to someone and suddenly be friends?

First of all, I had no intention of offending anyone with my post. I don't think anyone knows a straight answer to your question, since everyone comes from different backgrounds. I'm sure there are plenty of people who had greater success in this area. Mine was more of a mixed bag. I'm just speaking from my personal experience, so I cannot claim to represent every transplant out there nor do I have any interest in disparaging the renowned Minnesotan hospitality and tolerance. I also think it's unfair to compare MSP to the likes of Paris, a major world capital with a long history of melting cultures. Growing up, my family would move to a new place every 2-3 years, so I've never had a home country per se. Still, I've never had any trouble making friends no matter the city or country we ended up in. In some instances these friends transformed into lifelong friends. As to America, this past summer I spent a week in SF where I randomly met a complete stranger at a concert and by the end of that same week we went on to travel around California together. I'm an outgoing person, but I just haven't had the same success in my five years here. Everyone goes out of their way to be nice to each other, but when it comes to hanging out together? Busy, busy, busy. That's a generalization of course, you get the point. As it stands, Minnesota's society is an extremely tolerant one. However, this tolerance does not quite yet translate into accepting (of differences).

[David Greene]

However, this tolerance does not quite yet translate into accepting (of differences).

Nail. Hammer. Hit.

I'm really sick of hearing about "tolerance." I can "tolerate" you, but that doesn't mean I accept you for who you are.

We don't need more tolerance. We need more integration and opening up of communities.

[Nathan]

Minnesotans and a lot of Northern (and Nordic) people have very reserved groups of people who are a lot harder to reach at more intimate levels of friendship. A lot of people from outside don't get the kind of passive aggressive MN nice thing. The don't see the in your face initial outreach of friendship, and don't often get what it means until their neighbor is blowing out their driveway after the first snowfall. I don't think it's as 'cliquey' as people would like to say it as much as people are guarded and protective of the friendships and such, it takes a bit to break into that as a new comer. Personally I do my best to take transplants in under my wing as much as possible because I see how difficult it is for them to get into our culture. I think we're shaking that a bit as all societies globalize, but I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily either.

[David Greene]

I've never quite understood the idea that Minnesota is hard to move to. I moved every couple years until turning 18, and moving in general is a bitch. I moved to Minnesota twice, once in eighth grade (leaving after tenth) and then back for college, when no one I knew from my earlier stay was going to the U.

Well, it's much easier to meet people at school than in the workforce. Still, I have heard from *many* people that it's much harder to get to know people in the Twin Cities.

There certainly is a culture of close-knit communities which is great for some things but really stinks when you're the one left out. Hell, I went to a neighborhood meeting a few weeks ago and when I expressed a different opinion than some of the "long timers" one of them asekd in a very unfriendly way, "Well how long have *you* lived here?"

I've lived in this neighborhood for over nine years. I think that qualifies me as, you know, a neighbor.

[David Greene]

I'll also note that schoool populations (especially at universities) tend to be much more open to different kinds of people and ideas. The general population is *very* different from what you'll find at the U.

[David Greene]

Minnesotans and a lot of Northern (and Nordic) people have very reserved groups of people

I hear this a lot and it's just B.S. Minnesota and the Twin Cities is much more ethnically German than Nordic. And then there are the Irish, Italians, Polish, etc. I don't think the Twin Cities have ever been majority Nordic.

Minnesotans aren't any more reserved than any other population. They do seem to be more resistant to change, however, at least in my experience.

[NickP]

Visualizer. Thanks for exapnding on your previous statement and just to be clear, I was not offended by your post.
I think one reason it is difficult to meet people in MN is because so many folks who are from here, stay here. I view this as a positive, but this trait can lead to an insular environment. For example, when I go out, I often randomly run into people I went to elementary school, middle school, or high school with. This leads us to reminisce about things and I can definitely see how it would be intimidating for a new person to try and insert him or hersel finto the conversation.
As for David's post, you are correct in that we are not mostly Scandanavian. I think we claim to be so because that significant population has so greatly influenced us and thus makes us unique. Chicago, Milwaukee, Boston, etc all can claim large German, Irish, Italian, Polish, etc. populations. I don't know of many other places in the US, however, that can claim such large Scandinavian population and influence.

[Nick]

Everyone goes out of their way to be nice to each other, but when it comes to hanging out together? Busy, busy, busy. That's a generalization of course, you get the point.

I would attribute that more to everyone in their 20s in general having the need to feel like a celebrity. "You're having a party? Okay, like I'll try to stop by, but I'm just swamped with 14 credits of liberal arts classes and a part time job as a parking attendant."

But anyway, I think with this topic we'll basically all anecdote ourselves to death. Maybe my personal experience was good because St. Louis Park is lovely.