Riverview Corridor Streetcar

[Tiller]

So I noticed today while taking the 54 that apparently a bunch of businesses (not sure if a majority of not) along W 7th have anti-LRT petition posters in their windows.

[Qhaberl]

Why? The way i see it, depending on where the stops are light rail could be a major economic catalyst.


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[Mdcastle]

Do we have any statistics on the businesses on University that are doing better because people can arrive by train in addition to bus, car, bike, and foot, vs the ones that closed due to losing on-street parking or construction disruption?

[talindsay]

Remember that businesses don't care if the business climate improves, they don't care if ten years from now W 7th is better than it is now. They care that their business will still be there in ten years, and that its business will do well. While it's probably true that transit projects help business more than they hurt, that's a long-term macro view. As a small business owner they can't have the luxury of taking the long-term macro view, because if they go out of business during construction they won't be there to benefit from that view. So of course they're anti-LRT, it introduces a period of time when their businesses will be harmed.

That doesn't mean we should let them steer the conversation. It does mean we should listen to their concerns, and try to make sure that we set up programs to help them get through the construction phase. If they know we're committed to getting them through the construction phase, then they are more likely to be able to take the long macro view of it.

[mattaudio]

I've come to realize existing businesses are anti-change in general. Think bike lanes for example. You'd think that would be seen as a huge win, since it brings in customers and makes a node more charming and viable. But that's the long-term view. And I've worked on public engagement/advocacy for enough projects to know the biggest fear is "how long will this construction take?" Even on a mill and overlay, there's huge fears. Then huge relief to hear it's only intermittent closures and maybe three days of actual work.

[mulad]

I believe the signs are being made/distributed by the West 7th Business Association, although there's also a sign up in the West 7th/Fort Road Federation building, which is the district council and community development corporation headquarters. I'm not clear on what relation these organizations have to each other.

Needless to say, I'm extremely disheartened seeing these signs up around the neighborhood, since I moved into the area back around 2014 partly because of improving prospects for light rail or streetcar or something. I can't bring myself to buy anything at businesses that have these signs in the window, since I find that attitude completely despicable. I'm shut out of enjoying the neighborhood very much, so I guess I'd better start apartment hunting somewhere else.

[David Greene]

I've never gone inside Midway Books and I never will. I'll never visit Ax-Man again.

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[LakeCharles]

Midway Books is horrible. I've been in twice, both times the owners were there talking loud enough for anyone around to here, using racial epithets to describe the people walking around on Snelling/University. They clearly despise the neighborhood, I'm not sure why they don't move.

[MNdible]

I'll never listen to MPR again.

[DanPatchToget]

Midway Books is horrible. I've been in twice, both times the owners were there talking loud enough for anyone around to here, using racial epithets to describe the people walking around on Snelling/University. They clearly despise the neighborhood, I'm not sure why they don't move.

Last year I was part of a class looking at the Green Line and my professor knows the people at Midway Books. We went there as part of a tour along University and the people aren't exactly welcoming of the Green Line nor the affordable housing being built nearby because it will attract "the wrong kind of people."

[David Greene]

I'll never listen to MPR again.

Actually we haven't donated since that fiasco.

I listen much less than I used to because Kerri Miller is so awful.

[MNdible]

And I actually do listen to MPR quite a lot, but I'll never forgive them for their actions against the Green Line. Regarding small businesses fighting this sort of thing, it's unfortunate but also a totally understandable reaction to very disruptive change.

[EOst]

If I were Midway Books, I'd probably have opposed the Green Line too. There's no way they would still be open on used-book margins if they didn't own their building.

[mattaudio]

Maybe Snelling and University is too valuable of a corner to have a used book store then? Couldn't they move to another space in the neighborhood?

[LakeCharles]

That'd work great for them. Other businesses had a rough go during construction, and are now experiencing rent increases. Midway will have made a ton of money on the Green Line construction once they sell that building.

[EOst]

I doubt the economics would work for them to move. Moving a bookstore is expensive: tons of really heavy merchandise which all has to be boxed and carefully catalogued, plus you usually have to build custom shelving to fit the new space. The Bookhouse had to do a fire sale to clear inventory when they had to move.

Anyway, whether Midway Books should be in their current space or not, I think you can be a supporter of infrastructure projects without banishing all sympathy for small businesses afraid they might be ruined. Obviously Midway Books made it through construction, but many didn't. I know there were efforts to meliorate those effects, but maybe not enough.

[David Greene]

I don't think we can say with any certainty whether an individual business failed due to construction. The economy was not yet really recovering (it still hasn't). Look at Porky's. They blamed LRT but the truth is that they cashed out on a valuable piece of property after years of mismanagement. I don't fault a smart business decision but I do call them out for flat-out lying about what was happening.

The economy is so volatile that it's really difficult to pinpoint one cause of a business failure.

I don't lack sympathy for small business. I have no sympathy for racism and dishonesty.

[Silophant]

No idea where to find this stat now, but I swear I saw something (in this thread maybe?) showing that even in 2013, when there was heavy construction along the whole corridor the whole year, more businesses opened than closed along University. Not much comfort if your business is the one that doesn't make it, but the one piece of empirical data we have doesn't support the "LRT construction kills small businesses" theory.

[Mcgizz]

Here is the article. Good stuff in there.

http://m.startribune.com/mixed-results- ... 322973451/

[EOst]

I don't think it's productive trying to dispute whether businesses are going to suffer while their street undergoes reconstruction. Even if it's the figurative "straw that broke the camel's back" and these businesses had other problems, it's still the straw wot done it. And you don't have to go far to find other examples. The antique stores on Minnehaha have been pretty vocal about the business they've lost over the last two years, for example, and I'm sure we could find other examples (and Mcgizz's article doesn't paint a particularly rosy picture, even with the new businesses). That may not be reason enough to oppose reconstructing a street, but it's certainly enough to be cautious about it.

If you want LRT on W 7th, I think you're going to have much better results from talking to opposed business owners and trying to convince them of the benefits instead of boycotting their stores. If they're opposing it because of racism or lies or whatever, sure. But don't pretend it isn't a real issue to begin with.