Orange Line / 35W Downtown to Crosstown Project

[billhelm]

This project is already causing major bus backups leaving downtown. It’s at least doubled my commute home on the 133 between the lane closures coming out of downtown and traffic backed up on the 36th street Exit (not sure what’s causing that?). Gonna be a long 4 years. Maybe they should think about routing busses on Portland/Park as soon as the two sections of Portland re open. I think I’m going to switch to the 14 coming home for a while.

[DanPatchToget]

How much capacity is currently being used on the Marq2 corridor through downtown? There are already bus backups during rush hour, and with high frequency service the Orange Line will make this even worse, will it not?

[Silophant]

In theory, no. While Marq2 is pretty much at capacity, the Orange Line isn't just wedging new buses into it, but replacing the existing Rt. 535, which has 15 minute frequencies during rush hour. The Orange Line is expected to have 10-minute frequency, so it's only adding two buses per hour to the corridor. And, if all goes well, Marq2 will flow smoother with the dedicated bus ramp to and from the new MnPass lanes and the contraflow bus lane on 12th. We'll see, I guess.

[EOst]

Maybe they should think about routing busses on Portland/Park as soon as the two sections of Portland re open. I think I’m going to switch to the 14 coming home for a while.

From the SIP:

[LakeCharles]

Those will be permanent changes, or just from 2018 to 2020?

Thanks.

[billhelm]

Maybe they should think about routing busses on Portland/Park as soon as the two sections of Portland re open. I think I’m going to switch to the 14 coming home for a while.

From the SIP:

Yeah, I knew they were going to do that eventually when the routes into/out of downtown close - hopefully they do it sooner rather than later. Even the Franklin and 38th street bridge work is going to cause serious delays without alleviation of some sort.

[Silophant]

Those will be permanent changes, or just from 2018 to 2020?

Thanks.

Those would be permanent. 2018-2020 is just when MT is hoping to implement them.

[RailBaronYarr]

Hey folks, go here and participate in this survey about the potential extension down into Lakeville https://www.orangelineextension.com/

[Korh]

I kinda hope Normandale Community College considers adding a shuttle to and from the the South Bloomington Transit Center/Future 98th Street Station via 98th street or upgrading frequency on the 539 (maybe even replace those half sized buses they use on the route) and if its still around the 535. They might be able to create a small scale test using the MTVA 465 express as a stand in for the Orange Line but depending on how many students have college passes the express fare might damper ridership.

[twincitizen]

There was some chatter up-thread about the Good Grocer building being torn down. That property and the vacant lot to the west will be added to the Nico property, and the alley will be redirected out to Lake Street instead of Stevens Ave, due to the new exit ramp & widening of Stevens.

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... df#page=29

Obviously a major bummer that a (small) surface parking lot will be the end result of this transaction, but as MNdible said, it's a consequence of a major regional transportation improvement and the ship sailed a long time ago. Unfortunately, this is just how it's going to be until Nico relocates out of the city or shuts down. The Nico property is a superfund site, so that will complicate any future redevelopment of this block. This new surface lot is probably here for good. I guess we can still hold out hope that something good will get built in the southwest corner of the block (the non-Nico part) at 102-106 Lake St E, and the other 3 corners of the intersection too.

[DanPatchToget]

Also on the bright side is a direct trail connection between the Lake Street Station and Midtown Greenway. Many times I've carried my bike up and down the steps to/from the "bus stop" on 35W, and either option to get to the Greenway wasn't great; bike along Lake Street to 1st Avenue to Nicollet, or bike on 2nd Avenue to 4th Avenue and backtrack west.

[Tcmetro]

The Orange Line Extension study is making some movement, and an update is being presented at this month's DCRRA meeting:

• Looks like stations are being considered at both County Road 42 and at Crystal Lake Road. I would imagine that they are considering using the street next to 35W (Buck Hill Road) for this segment.
• Consideration of adding a station at County Road 50. This wouldn't really affect the operations of the Orange Line, as the buses need to exit at County Road 50 to reach the station at 167th St & Kenrick Ave.
• The County Road 60 and County Road 70 areas will not generate enough ridership to consider an extension of the Orange Line.

https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Government/ ... Packet.pdf

[DanPatchToget]

Glad common sense prevailed and they're not considering more transitways in empty fields.

Hopefully the station closest to Burnsville Center will be easily walkable. I'm glad they're considering a station in the County Road 50 area both to serve more than just a park & ride ramp but also since its a stone throw away from a potential regional rail corridor.

[SkyScraperKid]

Glad common sense prevailed and they're not considering more transitways in empty fields.

Hopefully the station closest to Burnsville Center will be easily walkable. I'm glad they're considering a station in the County Road 50 area both to serve more than just a park & ride ramp but also since its a stone throw away from a potential regional rail corridor.

...I bet you Google search "Dan Patch Rail" like every single day for updates, don't you?

[DanPatchToget]

Glad common sense prevailed and they're not considering more transitways in empty fields.

Hopefully the station closest to Burnsville Center will be easily walkable. I'm glad they're considering a station in the County Road 50 area both to serve more than just a park & ride ramp but also since its a stone throw away from a potential regional rail corridor.

...I bet you Google search "Dan Patch Rail" like every single day for updates, don't you?

I swear its only every other day!

[RailBaronYarr]

This might sound like blasphemy, but if they're seriously considering extending this thing so far south, it would be silly to continue the route along I-35 south of Kenrick P&R. CSAH 50 has relatively high speeds, and with some bus priority at a few key lights it could hit 50/Dodd and downtown Lakeville in a hurry. Both are much better locations for the tail end of a line than 185th St (which is not only low in terms of job/residential density, but the topography makes walking routes limited as well) and CR70, which, I guess has a Walmart and a truck stop.

I was also under the impression they were considering extending this down Nicollet from HOTC to have a few "local-ish" stops prior to the Burnsville Mall, which is honestly a much more logical Phase 1.5 terminus than anywhere in Lakeville.

[DanPatchToget]

From a local/accessibility standpoint, it would make more sense to route it south on Nicollet and perhaps terminate at Burnsville Center, but from a regional/mobility standpoint going onto I-35 is the better choice. I'll just be satisfied if it at least serves one place in Lakeville that isn't a park & ride ramp with very little surrounding land uses.

[SkyScraperKid]

From a local/accessibility standpoint, it would make more sense to route it south on Nicollet and perhaps terminate at Burnsville Center, but from a regional/mobility standpoint going onto I-35 is the better choice. I'll just be satisfied if it at least serves one place in Lakeville that isn't a park & ride ramp with very little surrounding land uses.

HAH!

Lakeville would never support that, they only want park and rides to keep the riff raff out. Then when they ask why they need park and rides on transit lines that are NOT express lines they don't see the logic in driving to a park and ride to ride downtown when they could just driver there and pay for parking instead of a bus ticket.

Wish they were more progressive down there but they just are not. I'd love to see the red line expanded to downtown St. Paul & Minneapolis service with a southern loop that ran into downtown Lakeville. Same with the Orange line, a southern loop that ran into downtown after leaving the freeway at Co. Rd. 70. The outrage from the people would be as if they were unloading bus loads of 5 bus riders! ...they won't say it directly but, that would be a nightmare for them even to have the idea floated around the mega houses with oversized lawns. Oh the horror!

[Tcmetro]

The Burnsville Center area is difficult to serve by transit. Most of the jobs are retail, which draws workers from the local area, and would be better served by good connections. Placing the station between the highway and the shopping mall is a bad idea unless the city and the mall owners can come up with a redevelopment plan. The Sears closest to the proposed bus stop is now closed, and the rest of the shops aren't doing well right now. Also, while Downtown Lakeville looks like a logical choice for a BRT terminus, it is really small and has far less business and activity than any of the strip malls on the arterial roads. There is a decent size industrial park south of the downtown area that could generate some trips however.

--

Orange Line TAC PPT shows that Orange Line starts in Dec. 2020, but the Lake St Station won't open until 2021.

https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites ... tac-23.pdf

[mattaudio]

The Orange Line should transition to aBRTish service south of Burnsville Transit Station. Run down Nicollet Ave with stations near Burnsville Parkway/HoC, Civic Center Parkway, McAndrews/Ridges Campus, then across the freeway on McAndrews or 42 to the Burnsville Mall. Or maybe a new bridge from Nicollet Court and the Golden Triangle across 35W to the Mall. The station would be best on the west side of the Burnsville Mall since there's a significant cluster of apartments between the mall and County 5.