Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction (Douglas to Lake St)

[mattaudio]

I wonder if snow removal is the reason why we don't see bus bulb island stops. https://nacto.org/publication/transit-s ... land-stop/

[MNdible]

I'll repeat my earlier criticism that the Lake to 31st block absolutely needs to have have pull-off bays in each direction for loading/unloading of taxis, Ubers, drop-offs of elderly, picking up those with heavy packages, etc. If you hate it when bike lanes are blocked, you need to provide a reasonable alternative, especially in a block that will have this much loading/unloading traffic. There's plenty of width in that 17' wide sidewalk zone to create a couple of short loading bays and still have a very pleasant streetscape.

[RailBaronYarr]

I actually agree with MNdible there, which is also why I like the idea of a protected bikeway at sidewalk level with parking pull-outs in the boulevard space on the southern blocks. At the PAC meeting where early concepts were presented, we had a (totally random) guest with disabilities who raised the issue of whether Metro Mobility could pull out anywhere.

As to snow and bus bulbs, the city is testing out a fully raised bus bulb with bikeway behind it on Oak St near the U. They are specifically looking at how it functions for cyclists, how they'll manage snow, and how crowds use it.

[twincitizen]

So who went to the open house last night, what did you see, etc? Where are the aBRT stops? How many lanes, any transit priority?

Here's the City's project page: http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/cip/fut ... nepinSouth
Flyer for last night's meeting: http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/gro ... 209903.pdf
2023 construction

[Tcmetro]

The layout shows three "E Line" stops along Hennepin, at Franklin, 25th, and Uptown TC. The rapid bus study from 2011 recommended 24th and 26th, although I suppose there is plenty of time to change the locations.

Hopefully the E Line can start when the construction wraps up in 2023!

[mattaudio]

They really need to do a full transitway with a few more stops than that, and use it for all local bus routes on Hennepin. Stops at Franklin, 22nd, 25th, 27th, and Uptown TC.

[grant1simons2]

... and a big old university is forgotten about

[EOst]

^Pretty mystifying to me that the E Line plans don't involve an extension along the 6U route to Stadium Village.

[twincitizen]

Let’s try to keep this topic limited to the portion of Hennepin being reconstructed (and the E Line stations that will be built as part of the project).

Was there something at the meeting confirming that the E Line plan was identical to the 2012 ATCS study? Or are y’all just assuming so? The E Line planning effort doesn’t really begin until 2019-2020 so I’d urge caution on assuming anything.

On one hand, Franklin-25th-Uptown is pretty aggressively far apart for what will be the “main” frequent service in this corridor. That’s probably close to how subway/LRT stations would be spaced in this environment.

The downside is that wide station spacing is too far to eliminate local stops entirely. While aBRT isn’t going to have stops exactly every 1/4-mile, an alternate of Franklin - 24th - 26th(or midblock 26th/27th) - Uptown might be a reasonable distance that would still allow elimination of remaining local stops in this stretch

[EOst]

It doesn't mean a ton, but this map from their rapid bus page (map updated a month ago, according to the filename) still has the E Line terminating downtown:

[mamundsen]

This map would look a lot more complete with the Riverview, Rush, Gold Line and something along 36 or RT 3 (enhanced).

[thatchio]

If there were ever a subway, there would likely be only one station in between Loring Park and Uptown Transit Center. Stations are expensive. That said, aBRT is not as capital intensive. Things to consider: how should surface transit operate in this section, especially if there are both local and aBRT routes? aBRT will need to occasionally pass local buses.

I would hope that Hennepin improvements would include at least:
- buses the ability to get in front of the general purpose traffic, such as bus only signals with leading interval timing.
- bus only lanes between Franklin and 25th, at least.
- removal of the bus stops at 28th and 22nd
- no beg buttons
- improved crosswalks that make it much more clear to drivers that they should stop further back and that they shouldn't queue in the intersection
- additional left-turn restrictions
- managed public parking on the side streets for first block between Hennepin and adjacent streets to off-set lost parking along Hennepin

[grant1simons2]

"beg buttons" are required by ADA. Many are hooked up incorrectly and require a push to cross. We just need to be sure they get connected.

[Anondson]

You know how car washes have sensors that alert drivers to back up when you pull in too far? Heavily used crosswalks should get this to buzz at drivers who stop on crosswalk paint.

Does the ADA require beg buttons even if the walk light is set to always happen like the vehicle traffic lights always cycle even when no cars are present?

[intercomnut]

You know how car washes have sensors that alert drivers to back up when you pull in too far? Heavily used crosswalks should get this to buzz at drivers who stop on crosswalk paint.

Does the ADA require beg buttons even if the walk light is set to always happen like the vehicle traffic lights always cycle even when no cars are present?

Yes, because the buttons contain audible and tactile (the button vibrates) cues to tell people who cannot see and/or hear when to cross.

[Silophant]

I believe so. As I understand it, the beg buttons have to be at the far side of the crosswalk from their parallel street, and that's where the speakers for the audio cues have to be located. At least, that's the explanation I got for why the new Nicollet crosswalks have beg buttons (that can't actually be pressed, because the walk signs always come on) on separate poles from the actual stoplights, even though the stoplight poles have covered cutouts that are very clearly intended to be where the beg buttons are mounted.

[David Greene]

If there were ever a subway, there would likely be only one station in between Loring Park and Uptown Transit Center. Stations are expensive. That said, aBRT is not as capital intensive. Things to consider: how should surface transit operate in this section, especially if there are both local and aBRT routes? aBRT will need to occasionally pass local buses.

I would hope that Hennepin improvements would include at least:
- removal of the bus stops at 28th and 22nd

Agree with everything you said except this. There's a senior mid-rise at that intersection. I'd prefer a stop there rather than at 27th. Yes, it's close to the transit center but the disproportionate number of transit-dependent people there justifies it.

Bus-only lanes should go all the way to Lake. Opening then to carpools would also be fine. They would need to be enforced.

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[thatchio]

Point taken about the audio-alerting functions of the beg button. I was intending more that one shouldn't have to press the button to get a walk.

As for 28th bus stop, it'd be useful to get some data on how many mobility restricted individuals use it. I found that stop extremely frustrating as it rarely seemed to have seniors or others with clear mobility needs. Minneapolis has far too many bus stops in general. Makes the 6 extremely frustrating to use if you're going south of Uptown. If I were to be more bold, I'd say get rid of stops at 22nd, 25th (except if that's where the E line stop is), 28th, and Lake Street. If 25th is for the E, then get rid of 22nd, 24th, and 26th, and keeping 27th.

[Anondson]

Not to continue the tangent, but how do countries that don’t have the ADA handle handicap accessibility at pedestrian crossings for the blind?

[David Greene]

I guess it depends on the definition of "mobility limited." Many such people don't have obvious physical disabilities. I'd like to see data too. More may use the stop off-peak, which I don't have a lot of anecdata about.

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