E Line Arterial BRT

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Bakken2016
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Bakken2016 » May 22nd, 2019, 3:01 pm

Anyone make it to the open house last night? Any major new updates?
I did!

So they are down to 3 routings between UTS and Southdale.

See here: https://www.metrotransit.org/e-line-project

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Anondson
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Anondson » May 22nd, 2019, 6:18 pm

I thought we knew that before the meeting.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby MSPtoMKE » September 21st, 2019, 12:30 am

The E Line project staff have selected a recommended route. On the north end it appears that they still have not made a final decision between a terminus at Stadium Village or Westgate stations. On the south end, the recommendation is to serve Linden Hills, 44th, and France Ave on the way to Southdale Transit Center. This seems to be the least “twisty” route that serves the most major business nodes as well as Fairview Hospital.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby mamundsen » September 21st, 2019, 7:56 am

Will they make transit only lanes for this line? I could see a big benefit of true transit only lanes on University/4th and Henn. Not only for the E Line but all of the other local and express routes using the same L shape route.

nmin
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby nmin » September 21st, 2019, 10:29 am

Not excited to see that there won't be a stop on the riverfront (e.g. Hennenpin/1st and 2nd or Main) not great for access to those destinations or transfer options in NE. Central & University/4th are both pretty hostile intersections and I don't trust MNDOT to improve them anytime soon (even with ABRT).

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Qhaberl » September 21st, 2019, 12:35 pm

Not excited to see that there won't be a stop on the riverfront (e.g. Hennenpin/1st and 2nd or Main) not great for access to those destinations or transfer options in NE. Central & University/4th are both pretty hostile intersections and I don't trust MNDOT to improve them anytime soon (even with ABRT).
I’m on the pedestrian committee. As far as I know, they haven’t made any determinations about where their will and won’t be stops yet



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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby mattaudio » September 21st, 2019, 1:48 pm

Route the 6 up Xerxes, then west of Bde Maka Ska via West Lake Station and Uptown Transit Station like this https://goo.gl/maps/LdrByqo3yBcL1aJX6

Provides additional benefits vs keeping the route east of Bde Maka Ska colocated with the E Line:

- 1/2 mi walk to West End
- Allows for Southdale/Xerxes > Green Line > SW burbs reverse commute via transfer at West Lake
- Allows for Uptown > Green Line > SW burbs reverse commute via transfer at West Lake
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby EOst » September 21st, 2019, 1:50 pm

This always seemed like the inevitable alignment for the line. There was no way they would build this and not serve the growth in downtown Linden Hills.
Will they make transit only lanes for this line? I could see a big benefit of true transit only lanes on University/4th and Henn. Not only for the E Line but all of the other local and express routes using the same L shape route.
I think the new protected bike lanes on 4th/University make this very unlikely. You would need to reduce parts of the newly-reconfigured streets down to one lane at peak hours. Realistically that's a non-starter.

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Tcmetro
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Tcmetro » September 21st, 2019, 6:09 pm

Good to see this project progressing. Hopefully bus lanes become part of the project. Bus lanes between Prospect Park and Hennepin/Lake seem like they would be totally feasible.

I think it would be nice if they replaced the 6 south of Southdale with the 515. It's more frequent, and would allow the residential parts of the France/Southdale area have a direct connection to the Orange line.

Looks like MT is planning on cancelling service on Wooddale and 39th. Not high-ridership areas, but definitely a case of frequency vs coverage.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby tmart » October 1st, 2019, 12:16 pm

It's a bit of a complex route, but the rationale does make sense and it hopefully will still be fairly straightforward to navigate with the exception of the segment between France and Hennepin. Hopefully they have a concrete plan to keep the buses moving through that section smoothly, because that's a lot of turns and intersections.

One thought I had following this process is that, someday in the semi-distant future, it may make sense to have rapid lines on both France and Xerxes. Both have destinations and density, enough so that they are keeping the 6 with ok-ish frequency. In that scenario, I think it would make a ton of sense to have the France line rerouted slightly to go down Excelsior towards Uptown, and the Xerxes line follow this route from 44th to Hennepin.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Multimodal » October 4th, 2019, 11:18 pm

It's a bit of a complex route, but the rationale does make sense and it hopefully will still be fairly straightforward to navigate with the exception of the segment between France and Hennepin. Hopefully they have a concrete plan to keep the buses moving through that section smoothly, because that's a lot of turns and intersections.

One thought I had following this process is that, someday in the semi-distant future, it may make sense to have rapid lines on both France and Xerxes. Both have destinations and density, enough so that they are keeping the 6 with ok-ish frequency. In that scenario, I think it would make a ton of sense to have the France line rerouted slightly to go down Excelsior towards Uptown, and the Xerxes line follow this route from 44th to Hennepin.
I agree about France & Xerxes both needing BRT, but a France line going north of 44th St. is basically going where there is zero density or demand. You’re basically going along & through a large private country club. If that ever got redeveloped, I could see the point, but otherwise, no.

Historically, streetcars went along 44th (hence its density), westward past France to Hopkins & Excelsior. If we ever got a grid-based transit network, rather than our spoke-and-hub system, then a France BRT line going north past 44th might make sense.

So there’s 2 strikes against it, in my mind.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby DanPatchToget » October 5th, 2019, 12:51 pm

It's a bit of a complex route, but the rationale does make sense and it hopefully will still be fairly straightforward to navigate with the exception of the segment between France and Hennepin. Hopefully they have a concrete plan to keep the buses moving through that section smoothly, because that's a lot of turns and intersections.

One thought I had following this process is that, someday in the semi-distant future, it may make sense to have rapid lines on both France and Xerxes. Both have destinations and density, enough so that they are keeping the 6 with ok-ish frequency. In that scenario, I think it would make a ton of sense to have the France line rerouted slightly to go down Excelsior towards Uptown, and the Xerxes line follow this route from 44th to Hennepin.
I agree about France & Xerxes both needing BRT, but a France line going north of 44th St. is basically going where there is zero density or demand. You’re basically going along & through a large private country club. If that ever got redeveloped, I could see the point, but otherwise, no.

Historically, streetcars went along 44th (hence its density), westward past France to Hopkins & Excelsior. If we ever got a grid-based transit network, rather than our spoke-and-hub system, then a France BRT line going north past 44th might make sense.

So there’s 2 strikes against it, in my mind.
"Zero density or demand"? Along France north of 44th perhaps, but when you get to Excelsior it picks up again, especially where Excelsior meets Lake Street.

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Re: RE: Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby David Greene » October 6th, 2019, 5:21 pm


"Zero density or demand"? Along France north of 44th perhaps, but when you get to Excelsior it picks up again, especially where Excelsior meets Lake Street.
SWLRT will serve that area just fine. Maybe some people at Lake & Excelsior will go to points south and vice-versa but does it justify a major bus route?

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DanPatchToget
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby DanPatchToget » October 6th, 2019, 8:43 pm

Southwest LRT and the E Line are two completely different routes. In addition to connections south to Edina an ABRT route on France to Excelsior would also provide connections to Uptown and along Hennepin Avenue. Yeah the B Line will provide connections from West Lake to Uptown, but I'd rather have two ABRT routes bridging the gap between West Lake and Uptown in order to make the transfer as painless as possible.

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Anondson
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Anondson » October 6th, 2019, 9:01 pm

I’ll put in that a line going along France to the West Lake Station would make transit from Hopkins to Southdale worth considering.

Maybe in the future a SWLRT to (whatever transit we get from West Lake to Uptown) to E-Line is faster than the 70-90 minutes a Hopkins to Southdale transit option is today.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby mattaudio » October 7th, 2019, 11:59 am

Route the 6 up Xerxes, then west of Bde Maka Ska via West Lake Station and Uptown Transit Station like this https://goo.gl/maps/LdrByqo3yBcL1aJX6

Provides additional benefits vs keeping the route east of Bde Maka Ska colocated with the E Line:

- 1/2 mi walk to West End
- Allows for Southdale/Xerxes > Green Line > SW burbs reverse commute via transfer at West Lake
- Allows for Uptown > Green Line > SW burbs reverse commute via transfer at West Lake
Would this routing (in addition to E-Line draft LPA via France/44th/Hennepin) meet that need?

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Qhaberl » October 8th, 2019, 9:35 pm

There certainly needs to be better service near the Excelsior and grand area. Hopefully one of the arterial bus rapid transit lines will address that.


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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby Multimodal » April 18th, 2020, 8:51 am

I’ll put in that a line going along France to the West Lake Station would make transit from Hopkins to Southdale worth considering.

Maybe in the future a SWLRT to (whatever transit we get from West Lake to Uptown) to E-Line is faster than the 70-90 minutes a Hopkins to Southdale transit option is today.
Well, this is the problem with our hub-and-spoke system. From Hopkins, you have to get to Uptown to get to Southdale.

If we had a grid, then you could go south on 169 or 100 to 62 east to Southdale.

Like, you know, with a car. We prioritize cars and make it easiest & fastest to get places by car. Transit has to be better or no one will use it (unless they have to).

talindsay
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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby talindsay » April 20th, 2020, 7:42 am

Grids are inherently inefficient. You want a hub and spoke system. What we're missing is a couple radial lines to allow moving from one spoke to another spoke without going all the way in to the hub.

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Re: E Line Arterial BRT

Postby alexschief » April 20th, 2020, 9:22 am

Grids are inherently inefficient. You want a hub and spoke system. What we're missing is a couple radial lines to allow moving from one spoke to another spoke without going all the way in to the hub.
So what you're saying is: a hub and spoke system is good, so long as it's a grid.


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