Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Bakken2016
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » June 20th, 2019, 9:04 am

[IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201906 ... 6e336d.jpg[/IMG]

Looks like Opat is still pretty sure it will work out...


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mattaudio
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » June 20th, 2019, 9:06 am

I heard someone else at the county mention that the entire Bottineau Project Office staff has been reassigned to other projects or offices, so that seems to speak louder than a hopeful tweet.

Silophant
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Silophant » June 20th, 2019, 9:43 am

Opat has spent about 20 years dragging this project along, so he's probably not the most reliable source on this topic.
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Bakken2016
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » June 20th, 2019, 9:44 am

Opat has spent about 20 years dragging this project along, so he's probably not the most reliable source on this topic.
I was being sarcastic, lol

Tom H.
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tom H. » June 20th, 2019, 9:53 am

Not that I necessarily disbelieve the rumors being mentioned on the thread, but has there been any objective reporting on the supposed mothballing of this project? Or is it just on the level of hearsay at the moment?

COLSLAW5
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby COLSLAW5 » June 24th, 2019, 11:54 am

Addressing the office being reassigned the exact same thing happened with the southwest project office staff as well. There are other large Metro transit projects that need support and the staff can be used to support the departments. When the project picks up again they are just all called back.

David Greene
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » June 24th, 2019, 8:43 pm

Man, that tweet gives me all kinds of creepy, mixed feelings.

On the one hand, calling the line "suburban" may be a political ploy to make the project more appealing to <whomever>.

On the other hand, it's very insensitive, almost to the point of being outright racist. Opat is completely dismissing the importance of transit (and I would argue, this project) to North Minneapolis. "This project is only important because of the suburban component," he's saying. It furthers the narrative of the urban/suburban divide and the only winner there is those against transit.

And really, <whomever> Opat may or may not be trying to convince doesn't really change the fact that the railroad is blocking it. I suppose FRA could lean on BNSF but I just don't see a junior backbencher from Minnesota having the pull, much less a county commissioner with delusions of grandeur.

While the loss of job access to the Target campus for people on the Northside would be unfortunate, getting it completed at least to Robbinsdale should be a high priority. We can always extend it later. I would not mind seeing a re-route along W. Broadway (assuming the neighborhoods generally approve) but I don't really see that as realistic. It would set the project back at least another decade.

It would be a really bad look to go all-out to get SWLRT done (which I still very much approve of) and not do the same for Bottineau.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby DanPatchToget » June 24th, 2019, 9:58 pm

Man, that tweet gives me all kinds of creepy, mixed feelings.

On the one hand, calling the line "suburban" may be a political ploy to make the project more appealing to <whomever>.

On the other hand, it's very insensitive, almost to the point of being outright racist. Opat is completely dismissing the importance of transit (and I would argue, this project) to North Minneapolis. "This project is only important because of the suburban component," he's saying. It furthers the narrative of the urban/suburban divide and the only winner there is those against transit.

And really, <whomever> Opat may or may not be trying to convince doesn't really change the fact that the railroad is blocking it. I suppose FRA could lean on BNSF but I just don't see a junior backbencher from Minnesota having the pull, much less a county commissioner with delusions of grandeur.

While the loss of job access to the Target campus for people on the Northside would be unfortunate, getting it completed at least to Robbinsdale should be a high priority. We can always extend it later. I would not mind seeing a re-route along W. Broadway (assuming the neighborhoods generally approve) but I don't really see that as realistic. It would set the project back at least another decade.

It would be a really bad look to go all-out to get SWLRT done (which I still very much approve of) and not do the same for Bottineau.
I think you're over-analyzing a politician calling it suburban LRT, and saying his term for it is racist is really stretching it. Politicians aren't the best at using the correct terms for transit services. Some call Northstar light rail, some call Southwest commuter rail, and then there was someone on the Transportation Finance and Policy Division who's against light rail but spelled it "lite" in a tweet. I forget who, but I believe he's from Hutchinson. Also I think Jon Koznick referred to Route 467 as express BRT, which is just flat out wrong. Frequent service during rush hour but only during rush hour doesn't make your bus service BRT.

I would just call the Blue Line Extension light rail, but it's not right or wrong to call it suburban LRT since it will mostly serve suburban areas.

David Greene
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Re: RE: Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » June 25th, 2019, 2:34 pm


Politicians aren't the best at using the correct terms for transit services.
Except Opat has been at the forefront of the project since it started as BRT. He absolutely knows what he's saying. And he had a history of snubbing the Northside, even when he represented part of it.

It's devisive language and reinforces the political narrative of division, which greatly hurts support for transit.

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tmart
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby tmart » June 25th, 2019, 3:26 pm

My 2¢ is that the project was never really designed around providing service to Northsiders, and the fact that some of the stops will sorta serve them is largely a side-effect. If I wanted to design a line to shuttle suburban commuters from the northwest to downtown while minimizing their contact with North, it would be hard to "beat" the plans being advanced: most of the line is through suburbs, and as soon as it does hit the Minneapolis city limits, it skirts around the edge and goes through a park on the periphery of the dense, transit-dependent neighborhood, then down the middle of a highway.

In that sense, it's a suburban line in the same way that the Orange Line is suburban transit despite part of its route lying in an urban area.

Tcmetro
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » June 25th, 2019, 9:02 pm

While it does skirt North Minneapolis, the Humboldt stop is adjacent to one of two family-orientated public housing developments in the city.

The unfortunate thing is that the county went full-steam on rebuilding Bottineau, with the anticipation that the light rail would go in the rail corridor.

mattaudio
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby mattaudio » June 26th, 2019, 8:00 am

"Northwest light rail plan has stalled, but cities push ahead anyway"
https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... s_headline

I'm actually thinking this isn't as bad as everyone is making it sound. Didn't this happen on SWLRT at one point? Yet here we are, under construction. Just as with SWLRT, I have my critiques of the chosen alignment and the process that brought us here. But despite that, this is still a useful project that I think should move forward.

I can't imagine BNSF will be an insurmountable roadblock here. They're probably just fishing for as much money as they can get. The branch line (Monticello Subdivision) was once part of the Great Northern Railroad's St. Vincent Extension and mainline to the Pacific Northwest. Now? Not so much - I doubt they have more than a couple customers on the entire 40+ mile line. I'm sure their real estate has a price.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby DanPatchToget » June 26th, 2019, 8:40 am

Based on looking at Google Earth, they have 14 possible active shippers plus the Monticello Nuclear Plant. I might be wrong but I think they’re required to have that rail connection.

alexschief
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alexschief » November 14th, 2019, 12:54 pm

Janet Moore on Twitter:
I've confirmed that BNSF Railway CEO Carl Ice met with Gov. Tim Walz recently. Bottineau Blue Line LRT extension with eight-mile co-location discussed along w/other projects. BNSF said it "has no interest in that project in that corridor."
In other news, the primary reason why the Blue Line extension needs to happen is to make it easier for people to enjoy downtown Robbinsdale's good restaurants.

David Greene
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby David Greene » November 14th, 2019, 1:02 pm

I don't know how realistic this is but perhaps this is an opportunity to redesign the line to follow West Broadway instead of BNSF. Start with a shorter segment to Robbinsdale with later extension to Brooklyn Park. Yes, it would start the process over but if BNSF isn't going to budge, better to do that now and hopefully hit a much better federal administration when it reaches that point.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby VacantLuxuries » November 14th, 2019, 1:55 pm

I've been beating the drum for short, self-fundable extensions to our LRT ever since we kept running into issues with SWLRT. Scrap the half-cent cap on county transit taxes, build station by station heading northwest, and have something immediately useable instead of where we are now - spending money planning for a project that's been dead now for several years.

alexschief
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alexschief » November 14th, 2019, 2:07 pm

I don't know how realistic this is but perhaps this is an opportunity to redesign the line to follow West Broadway instead of BNSF. Start with a shorter segment to Robbinsdale with later extension to Brooklyn Park. Yes, it would start the process over but if BNSF isn't going to budge, better to do that now and hopefully hit a much better federal administration when it reaches that point.
What's your plan from getting from Target Field to North Memorial? A tunnel?

It'd be expensive, but you could build the ends with cut and cover and only bore the diagonal from Plymouth to Penn. If you placed stations at Plymouth/Emerson-Fremont, Broadway/Penn, and Broadway and Lowry, ridership would be quite a bit stronger than what's proposed in the existing alignment.

EOst
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby EOst » November 14th, 2019, 2:11 pm

I think the AA proposed taking Lyndale to Broadway. I imagine that might require some ROW acquisition (strangely, only a 60' ROW right now), but you might be able to do it without demolitions. Penn is impossible without demolishing a lot of houses.

gopherfan
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby gopherfan » November 14th, 2019, 2:22 pm

The Blue Line we deserve:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=109s4P ... sp=sharing

Here, I'll do what you shoulda did (Met Council) 10 years ago...
https://youtu.be/K4GAQtGtd_0?t=243

Throw out that old plan already!!!

alexschief
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alexschief » November 14th, 2019, 2:27 pm

Lyndale N makes sense, as long as you are willing to give trains their own ROW for the length of the route.

ADT on that stretch of Lyndale is just 7,800, and there doesn't seem to be a single property that relies on it for access, I see no reason why you'd have to acquire property, just turn the street entirely over to transit. Broadway is a wider street, but also more heavily used, that would seem to be a tougher political fight (but again, any alignment that actually goes through North Minneapolis is much more worthwhile than the existing proposal).


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