Northstar Commuter Rail
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- Nicollet Mall
- Posts: 117
- Joined: March 26th, 2013, 10:00 am
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
IIRC the Fridley station was built for tracks on both sides of the platform, I would think that would help more than anything.
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
Rep. Dan Wolgamott of St. Cloud has introduced another bill this year to get funding to push Northstar along. Following the $650,000 from last year to study the route and begin negotiations with BNSF, this year's bill would put another $6 million into negotiations and planning. It's HF 4017.
https://www.sctimes.com/story/news/2020 ... 942647002/
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.p ... n_number=0
https://www.sctimes.com/story/news/2020 ... 942647002/
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.p ... n_number=0
Mike Hicks
https://hizeph400.blogspot.com/
https://hizeph400.blogspot.com/
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
It is so dumb to not complete this line to St Cloud. The growth of that corridor demands better service and with over half of the route done it is time to finish... the conservatives just want to “prove” mass transit doesn’t work... I’m so glad St Cloud elected someone who wants to see this project completed... glad this guy is pushing this forward!
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- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1669
- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
The optimist in me likes to see progress being made on the St. Cloud extension, but the pessimist side of me is disappointed this study will take 2 years and even after that's done (if it's done) it doesn't mean trains will start serving St. Cloud right away. Also I'm not hopeful that service to St. Cloud will be substantial. At most we should only expect the existing trips (5 commute, 1 reverse commute) extended to St. Cloud. Not exactly the all-day regional rail service that people like myself know makes sense and should be pursued.
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- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1669
- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
Depressing fact of the day: Northstar daily ridership is in the double digits.
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
And we think the carbon footprint of people driving their SUVs is bad -- just imagine what the numbers on a diesel locomotive hauling a couple dozen people looks like.
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- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1669
- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
I’m guessing easier said than done borrowing a couple RDCs to temporarily replace the giant diesel locomotives and coaches for 25 or less riders per trip.
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
Or you could just run a coach bus.
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- Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
True. Add one or two additional roundtrips just to make sure there's enough social distancing, and just extend the 887 (Northstar Link) all the way to Minneapolis.
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
Maybe we should just suspend the service, as I doubt you'd have a lot of takers for a bus. A lot of those couple of dozen are probably people that refuse to ride buses and others don't want to risk getting coronavirus sitting together on a bus instead of spread out on a train.
Probably a bigger carbon footprint is all those airplanes that are flying empty or nearly empty.
Probably a bigger carbon footprint is all those airplanes that are flying empty or nearly empty.
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
The MnDOT study for a Northstar extension to St. Cloud is out now:
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/passengerra ... index.html
They looked at four scenarios, which are all pretty minimal if you ask me. I've only had a chance to look at the executive summary so far:
https://www.sctimes.com/story/news/loca ... 580634002/
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/passengerra ... index.html
They looked at four scenarios, which are all pretty minimal if you ask me. I've only had a chance to look at the executive summary so far:
- Only one inbound train and one outbound per day in the peak direction
- Inbound/outbound train pairs in both the morning and afternoon
- Inbound/outbound train pairs in both the morning and afternoon, but express instead of making all stops (strangely ends up being more expensive)
- Probably the best option, with multiple round-trips per day, though with an extra evening outbound trip that seems unbalanced with the others, so it's 9 daily trips (4.5 round-trips) for some reason...
https://www.sctimes.com/story/news/loca ... 580634002/
Mike Hicks
https://hizeph400.blogspot.com/
https://hizeph400.blogspot.com/
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- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: November 12th, 2015, 11:35 am
- Location: Minneapolis
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
It's frustrating that any of the first three options were even considered, since they represent train service so minimal, there's barely any point in spending the money.
Too often these studies end up negotiating against themselves. Even if the study authors think it's impractical, why not study eight trips per day in each direction? Why not study sixteen trips per day in each direction? Why limit the scope of even the exploratory study?
Too often these studies end up negotiating against themselves. Even if the study authors think it's impractical, why not study eight trips per day in each direction? Why not study sixteen trips per day in each direction? Why limit the scope of even the exploratory study?
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- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1669
- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
My guess is this:Too often these studies end up negotiating against themselves. Even if the study authors think it's impractical, why not study eight trips per day in each direction? Why not study sixteen trips per day in each direction? Why limit the scope of even the exploratory study?
"The objective of this feasibility assessment is to provide decision makers with the estimated capital, operating, and maintenance costs of a range of service alternatives to extend Northstar service to St. Cloud that have been determined to be operationally feasible by BNSF."
I haven't read the full study yet, but I wonder if they considered a third main track to increase capacity or if this study assumes keeping the corridor at two tracks.
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
The report assumes maintaining the corridor at 2 tracks (except potentially around Northtown Yard). BNSF lets Northstar have one track to itself in the morning/evening and runs freights on the other, creating congestion when freight trains are coming from both directions. BNSF hates the idea of midday service as they do track maintenance between 9am-3pm, frequently taking one track out of service. Reading between the lines, a third track would presumably allow regional rail-type service, but that's probably over $1B spent on this extension. Not gonna happen so it was deemed not worth study.
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- Wells Fargo Center
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- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
Why not? A third track could allow regional rail service plus additional Amtrak service to Fargo and Grand Forks (and a potential extension to Winnipeg) while also allowing future freight traffic growth. Seems like a win for everybody even if it does cost a lot.The report assumes maintaining the corridor at 2 tracks (except potentially around Northtown Yard). BNSF lets Northstar have one track to itself in the morning/evening and runs freights on the other, creating congestion when freight trains are coming from both directions. BNSF hates the idea of midday service as they do track maintenance between 9am-3pm, frequently taking one track out of service. Reading between the lines, a third track would presumably allow regional rail-type service, but that's probably over $1B spent on this extension. Not gonna happen so it was deemed not worth study.
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
Man, how depressing must it be to work in the MnDOT passenger rail office, forever doing studies that you know will never get funded unless the DFL gets full governmental control (including 60% in the House), and even then, only maybe?
Joey Senkyr
[email protected]
[email protected]
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- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1669
- Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
Would be nice to have something equivalent to the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 but for passenger rail.
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- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1781
- Joined: May 31st, 2012, 8:02 pm
- Location: Chicago (ex-Minneapolitan)
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
Discussion underway about the future of the Northstar line.
https://m.startribune.com/transit-offic ... lmob=y&c=n
https://m.startribune.com/transit-offic ... lmob=y&c=n
- mckilanowski
- Block E
- Posts: 16
- Joined: September 29th, 2015, 10:26 pm
- Location: Hopkins (Avenues West)
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
Are the plans for the extension to St. Cloud to end at the current park and ride outside of town or at the Amtrak station in East St. Cloud? I mean, I think that using the Amtrak station is a no-brainer, what with the existing bus infrastructure and all, but I have the sinking suspicion that, like the other stations, it's just going to be at that bleak parking lot outside of town.
Gibb's first addition. If you know, you know.
Re: Northstar Commuter Rail
I thought I remembered hearing that they weren't extending it to the Amtrak station like they should, though I could be wrong and maybe constituents have convinced the powers that be to do the sensible thing.
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