Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[Bakken2016]

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Went for a walk between Target Field Station and the future Royalston and Basset Creek Valley Stations. Took some photos along the way of construction!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[karlshea]

That's awesome, thanks for sharing!

[Tom H.]

Has there been any news on the FFGA? Seems like the timeline keeps slipping, but they stay optimistic that it will be signed soon. With construction in full swing, I'm sure that the $900mm will be needed sooner or later.

[DanPatchToget]

The former bus station and offices at Southwest Station have been torn down. Seems like such a waste since the facility was only 20 years old. They really couldn't have an alignment that would allow that building to stay?

[Korh]

I think the final decision to tear it down and rebuild was left with SWtransit. I think I remember something about them wanting to do something TOD with the land the own around the station but I think it was minor at best and I think the main reason was to expand it.
Also somewhat disagree that 20 years is to recent to upgrade some facilities, I would argue that some stations along the blue line and maybe northstar (but that might be a stretch) could benefit from a face lift or small improvements here and there.

[DanPatchToget]

There's a pretty big difference between "a face lift or small improvements here and there" and completely tearing down a building.

I feel like tearing down the bus station has more to do with building another parking ramp next to the existing one, which I question the necessity of.

[candycaneforestelf]

They lost a good chunk of the surface parking there to the Elevate project, and I'm thinking they feel the station will not have adequate parking for an anticipated spike in park and ride commuters as well as game day ridership for sporting events.

And the parking would be needed to encourage ridership because while people in EP don't wanna drive in the traffic to and around downtown Minneapolis in the mornings, they would still rather drive than walk around EP itself, especially from November to March.

Also because there may be more trips to the station from communities further west with the train, like Chanhassen and Chaska, from those who are fine with a train but not what is essentially a coach bus.

[Tom H.]

Yep, I think SW Station is envisioned by the planners to be a "funnel" terminus for the SW suburbs along highways 5 & 212. I'm guessing, for gamedays, it will draw riders from Mankato and beyond who would rather park for free in EP than deal with traffic and parking in downtown Mpls.

Of course, one might question why it's the responsibility of transit agencies to provide free parking for sporting events, but I don't think we have the political will (yet) to start pricing parking in LRT park & rides. Frankly, those huge free parking ramps along the LRT lines seem like the ransom transit advocates have to pay to get average car-dependent surburbanites to buy in with the projects.

[DanPatchToget]

There’s only 1 giant parking ramp on the current LRT system, and after Southwest LRT is done it’ll be 2 (3 if we want to be technical since Southwest Station will have 2 separate ramps).

If this new parking ramp is mainly for game day travelers why not just have bus shuttles from the other big park & rides further west in Chanhassen and Chaska?

And then there’s the issue of having good transit service to places where people park instead of where people live, but that’s not as big of a deal for Southwest LRT as it is for park & rides on the Northstar and the other big bus stations like Burnsville, Apple Valley, Noble, and 95th Avenue.

[candycaneforestelf]

As someone who lives in the far SW exurbs, people aren't gonna wanna ride the bus from Chan or Chaska to transfer at EP station when the EP station is all of about 10-15 minutes away for most residents of those communities on weekends. They'd rather drive, park, and wait, than drive, park, wait for a bus, ride the bus, then get off the bus to wait for the train, and it will probably be the same for those who aren't already using the buses in those communities on weekdays, even if EP station would take an extra 5-10 minutes to get to while trying to traverse the 212 and 5 merge point and then waiting to turn at Prairie Center Drive. Also SW Transit, outside of the state fair shuttles, seems to prefer not to operate on weekends.

[DanPatchToget]

I meant shuttle buses operating non-stop between the other park & rides and US Bank Stadium, Target Field, etc.

[Mdcastle]

Because of the huge number of people that refuse to ride buses- any bus, anywhere, for any reason, but will ride rail. In other words, "rail bias".

[DanPatchToget]

Because of the huge number of people that refuse to ride buses- any bus, anywhere, for any reason, but will ride rail. In other words, "rail bias".

You underestimate the appeal of a coach bus where you're guaranteed a seat going non-stop to a stadium versus a train that will very likely be at or near crush loads on a game day and has to make numerous stops.

[candycaneforestelf]

Because of the huge number of people that refuse to ride buses- any bus, anywhere, for any reason, but will ride rail. In other words, "rail bias".

You underestimate the appeal of a coach bus where you're guaranteed a seat going non-stop to a stadium versus a train that will very likely be at or near crush loads on a game day and has to make numerous stops.

While I'd personally would ride a bus for the shuttle if I was guaranteed a ride back to my car (since I live out of transit range and would need my car to cover the first and last legs), a lot of people out this way won't for various dumb, sometimes prejudiced reasons.

The biggest obstacle, though, is getting Southwest to actually operate game day shuttle service and running routes that specifically go to and from the stadiums on game days. For whatever reason, they've never felt it was necessary.

[Tcmetro]

Public transit carriers cannot operate special services (like football express buses) without first advertising the opportunity for private operators to operate a comparable service.

Additionally, if running a special service is not profitable, I do not think it's a worthy endeavor. Metro Transit has said that they break even on their state fair operation, although I don't know if that accounts for the cost of needing extra space to store old buses.

[candycaneforestelf]

Public transit carriers cannot operate special services (like football express buses) without first advertising the opportunity for private operators to operate a comparable service.

Additionally, if running a special service is not profitable, I do not think it's a worthy endeavor. Metro Transit has said that they break even on their state fair operation, although I don't know if that accounts for the cost of needing extra space to store old buses.

I was not aware of this requirement. I wonder if this applies for each agency operating the special service since the State Fair Express here in the SW metro actually uses SW Transit coaches at SW Transit stations.

[DanPatchToget]

Because of the huge number of people that refuse to ride buses- any bus, anywhere, for any reason, but will ride rail. In other words, "rail bias".

You underestimate the appeal of a coach bus where you're guaranteed a seat going non-stop to a stadium versus a train that will very likely be at or near crush loads on a game day and has to make numerous stops.

While I'd personally would ride a bus for the shuttle if I was guaranteed a ride back to my car (since I live out of transit range and would need my car to cover the first and last legs), a lot of people out this way won't for various dumb, sometimes prejudiced reasons.

The biggest obstacle, though, is getting Southwest to actually operate game day shuttle service and running routes that specifically go to and from the stadiums on game days. For whatever reason, they've never felt it was necessary.

I've definitely seen SW Transit operate shuttle service to Vikings and Twins games (11,608 riders to be exact during the 2019 Twins season for all weekday home games). I don't know if they broke even or made a small profit on it.

[Tcmetro]

Looks like if a regular fare is charged, then the rules don't apply. Still leaves the question about the logic of subsidizing special bus routes.

https://www.transit.dot.gov/regulations ... ulations-0

[DanPatchToget]

1) Promote transit in an auto-oriented area. If people have a good experience using transit for a special service then maybe they'll consider using it for other trips.

2) Provide an alternative way to get to a mass gathering and thereby increase transit use to these gatherings. Some people including myself don't want to deal with traffic and parking in downtown and would rather take transit to the event (when there isn't a pandemic going on of course).


We'll see what happens with game day ridership when Southwest LRT opens. I'm very interested to know how many (or if any) people will take it from the west metro to MN United, St. Paul Saints, or even Xcel Energy Center.

[candycaneforestelf]

We'll see what happens with game day ridership when Southwest LRT opens. I'm very interested to know how many (or if any) people will take it from the west metro to MN United, St. Paul Saints, or even Xcel Energy Center.

If service runs late enough to EP, I'm fairly confident you would.