Blue Line Extension - Bottineau LRT

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EOst
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby EOst » August 26th, 2020, 12:19 pm

I don't think it's hard to imagine an open-seat race becoming very contentious about Broadway, in ways that get tied into larger area narratives about investment and gentrification. That's not a surefire win for an anti-Broadway-LRT candidate by any stretch, but I don't think it's a slam dunk against it either. I would absolutely expect many or most of the businesses along there to run a "Save Broadway!" campaign no matter what changes were proposed.

It's worth noting that Fernando is up for reelection in 2022 too. She won by a healthy margin in 2018 and is probably safe, but she lost nearly all of North Minneapolis to Blong Yang.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby SurlyLHT » August 26th, 2020, 1:16 pm

When would anything actually happen on this? Wouldn't there have to be new alignment studies and etc? Seems to me we're years from most everything and the economic and political landscape could change in any number of ways before then.

alexschief
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alexschief » August 26th, 2020, 1:55 pm

As I wrote on the previous page in my summary of the committee call, Met Council staff is hoping to get the project turned around and another public process started by the start of next year. So 2021 should be a busy and critical time for the Blue Line Ext, with some major decisions being made.

Tcmetro
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » October 6th, 2020, 10:18 am

There is a Corridor Management Committee meeting on 10/8. Gov Walz will be in the meeting it seems.

https://metrocouncil.org/getdoc/80cd273 ... genda.aspx

SurlyLHT
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby SurlyLHT » October 6th, 2020, 10:54 am

I was on a Zoom the W. Broadway Coalition and I think NEON put on a month ago. It was interesting that Met Council said they need a all hands on approach from local partners to get this through the engagement stage. But at the same time they said that city resources are limited with COVID, public safety issues and recession. I wouldn't be surprised if their optimism hits some unexpected reality given the changing landscapes and amount of resources available.

Tcmetro
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » October 6th, 2020, 11:37 am

Just noticed some materials were posted as well.

https://metrocouncil.org/getdoc/3e4e283 ... ation.aspx

alexschief
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alexschief » October 8th, 2020, 1:50 pm

Today the Blue Line Extension held another corridor management committee meeting. I think I was the only person not on the committee to call in, so that's moderately embarrassing. I'd invite others to tune in. This is important stuff.

Governor Tim Walz was on the call. I wonder if he decided to drop on after the last call was fairly contentious, with some recriminations about the failure to negotiate with BNSF.

- Walz started the agenda with some remarks. He said, "I believe in the Blue Line Extension... I want to be absolutely clear that our administration believes in [this project]." He thanked the members of the CMC and defended the decision to step away from the BNSF corridor. He said, "I do not believe they will change their position on this now or ever... Let's not be dependent on the whims of [BNSF]... This is a project that is worthy of a long term investment."

- Several committee members chimed in to reinforce the governor, expressing continued support for the line. Mayor Frey, in his comments, spoke about how a realignment of the project could provide a real opportunity to better serve North Minneapolis.

- A representative from the Business and Community Advisory Committees gave a report. People are disappointed by the delay of the project, but resigned to it. Some people who made unspecified investments based on the original alignment are unsurprisingly unhappy. People were frustrated by the lack of communication from the Met Council during the period of negotiation with BNSF.

- A representative from the Harrison neighborhood spoke about how the proposed alignment increased property values and rent in the neighborhood and has led to displacement. Some of the station areas were zoned for TOD, and a small affordable apartment building was replaced by a market rate building (not sure which one) that was allowed by that zoning. The neighborhood is also concerned that a changing alignment will eliminate any opportunity to improve safety on Olson Memorial Highway (although didn't MnDOT already kill opportunities to reduce lanes on the road?). Near-neighbors off of the proposed Van White and Penn Stations want attention paid to what has changed in their neighborhoods.

- Met Council will launch a new engagement process in January 2021, in partnership with The Alliance and Juxtaposition Arts. Effort will be online. Some questions about whether it is possible to do COVID-safe in-person engagement. Options are open to do that. The process will be iterative and can change as conditions change.

Image

- Project staff have created principles for their continuing work, which are pretty obvious. Robbinsdale still wants an effort made towards negotiating with BNSF. I think Robbinsdale said they wanted the "criminal" impacts of the line to be studied? Could I possibly have heard that right? Golden Valley is waiting to comment, understands that the line may be moved out of their territory entirely (yes, it should).

- There was a presentation on the structure of the advisory process for the project. Staff thinks there is an opportunity to reboot committees where appropriate, giving municipalities an opportunity to appoint new people, for a meeting in January or February of 2021. Certainly hope that anyone on here who lives in the project area would consider applying. Golden Valley hops on again to remind people that a changing alignment will probably change the roster of stakeholders somewhat (although there should be more addition than subtraction), and suggests that some of the connections to places like Wirth Park should not be lost in the shuffle.

Next meeting is December 10th.

Trademark
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Trademark » October 8th, 2020, 2:49 pm

Today the Blue Line Extension held another corridor management committee meeting. I think I was the only person not on the committee to call in, so that's moderately embarrassing. I'd invite others to tune in. This is important stuff.

Governor Tim Walz was on the call. I wonder if he decided to drop on after the last call was fairly contentious, with some recriminations about the failure to negotiate with BNSF.

- Walz started the agenda with some remarks. He said, "I believe in the Blue Line Extension... I want to be absolutely clear that our administration believes in [this project]." He thanked the members of the CMC and defended the decision to step away from the BNSF corridor. He said, "I do not believe they will change their position on this now or ever... Let's not be dependent on the whims of [BNSF]... This is a project that is worthy of a long term investment."

- Several committee members chimed in to reinforce the governor, expressing continued support for the line. Mayor Frey, in his comments, spoke about how a realignment of the project could provide a real opportunity to better serve North Minneapolis.

- A representative from the Business and Community Advisory Committees gave a report. People are disappointed by the delay of the project, but resigned to it. Some people who made unspecified investments based on the original alignment are unsurprisingly unhappy. People were frustrated by the lack of communication from the Met Council during the period of negotiation with BNSF.

- A representative from the Harrison neighborhood spoke about how the proposed alignment increased property values and rent in the neighborhood and has led to displacement. Some of the station areas were zoned for TOD, and a small affordable apartment building was replaced by a market rate building (not sure which one) that was allowed by that zoning. The neighborhood is also concerned that a changing alignment will eliminate any opportunity to improve safety on Olson Memorial Highway (although didn't MnDOT already kill opportunities to reduce lanes on the road?). Near-neighbors off of the proposed Van White and Penn Stations want attention paid to what has changed in their neighborhoods.

- Met Council will launch a new engagement process in January 2021, in partnership with The Alliance and Juxtaposition Arts. Effort will be online. Some questions about whether it is possible to do COVID-safe in-person engagement. Options are open to do that. The process will be iterative and can change as conditions change.

Image

- Project staff have created principles for their continuing work, which are pretty obvious. Robbinsdale still wants an effort made towards negotiating with BNSF. I think Robbinsdale said they wanted the "criminal" impacts of the line to be studied? Could I possibly have heard that right? Golden Valley is waiting to comment, understands that the line may be moved out of their territory entirely (yes, it should).

- There was a presentation on the structure of the advisory process for the project. Staff thinks there is an opportunity to reboot committees where appropriate, giving municipalities an opportunity to appoint new people, for a meeting in January or February of 2021. Certainly hope that anyone on here who lives in the project area would consider applying. Golden Valley hops on again to remind people that a changing alignment will probably change the roster of stakeholders somewhat (although there should be more addition than subtraction), and suggests that some of the connections to places like Wirth Park should not be lost in the shuffle.

Next meeting is December 10th.
I was listening to the meeting too. And yes the robbinsdale mayor was talking about criminal impacts. He also wanted it added to the priorities that we shouldn't study any previously ruled out alignments. Which is a terrible idea. Many things change over time and the Blue Line needs to be rethought.

I sent a question to the committee about will there be grade separation equity with the Southwest LRT line having 3 miles of bridges and tunnels will this extension be able to have tunnels through portions of North Minneapolis. If they are as serious in their commitment to equity as they say they should be doing this.

My preferred alignment would be a stop underneath North Loop before surfacing on Washington Avenue before again going below ground underneath West Broadway until maybe 26th ave N.

Tcmetro
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » October 8th, 2020, 3:40 pm

Thanks for the write up. I was listening while multitasking so it is much appreciated.

Will be interesting to see how engagement goes and what the results are.

Really hoping it leads to a narrowing of Olson Highway if that route is reused in some way.

alexschief
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alexschief » October 8th, 2020, 4:14 pm

All I'll say is that if the suburbs are concerned about the "criminal impacts" of this project, then this process could get pretty nasty pretty quick. I'm glad someone else heard that, so I don't feel as though I am going crazy. Chair Zelle very diplomatically avoided the topic, but that's not sustainable.

I know a lot of technical gloss was put over the decision to route the train around North Minneapolis, but it has always been hard to escape the thought that some suburban interests probably viewed avoiding the residents of the Northside as a positive. I don't think that façade will be possible to maintain going forward.

grrdanko
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby grrdanko » October 17th, 2020, 8:28 am

This will probably get pretty ugly. As I see it there are two groups that oppose the Blue Line substantially serving the north side:

- Suburban residents believe that it will bring crime
-North Side residents who are opposed to new amenities because of the gentrification risk

The second group doesn't get as much attention, but they have been pretty vocally opposed to many public investments.

The right use of resources is to put the train on an alignment that serves the north side well. Down Highway 55 and through a golf course doesn't serve anyone. This should be run up Broadway. It's will serve as many people as possible while intersecting with all the north / south bus routes in North Minneapolis.

alexschief
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby alexschief » October 17th, 2020, 11:11 am

To the extent that the latter group exists (as opposed to being a too-convenient-to-check ally for the former group), I don't think they hold sway anymore. The benefits of access to transit are obvious to people, especially as the METRO system expands. As the Stops-For-Us campaign in St. Paul showed a decade ago, communities will mobilize for access to transit, not the reverse. There are ways to ensure that increased land value from a transit investment stays in the community and helps lift people up instead of pushing them out. Not investing in an area because of concerns about gentrification is a direct pathway to disinvestment and decline instead.

grrdanko
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby grrdanko » October 18th, 2020, 8:30 am

There has been 50 years of disinvestment. As a community we should be embarrassed that we have ignored an entire quadrant of the city for an entire generation.

NickP
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby NickP » October 20th, 2020, 9:23 am

That part

Tcmetro
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Tcmetro » December 10th, 2020, 11:27 am

There is a CMC meeting this afternoon at 1:30

https://metrocouncil.org/getdoc/82dcd49 ... genda.aspx

Bakken2016
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » December 10th, 2020, 1:59 pm

Updated Draft Alignment Principles, did say with certain alignments certain cities could not be served(I'm assuming they are referring to Golden Valley)

uptownbro
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby uptownbro » December 10th, 2020, 2:19 pm

Would it be safe to assume then this would serve more of north Minneapolis? If so thats a huge win for the city and its north side residents. I cant see how that cant be the case if this no longer hits golden valley
Last edited by uptownbro on December 10th, 2020, 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bakken2016
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » December 10th, 2020, 2:20 pm

Would it be safe to assume then this would serve more of north Minneapolis? If so thats a huge win for the city and its north side residents.
It definitely seems to be the case!

uptownbro
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby uptownbro » December 10th, 2020, 2:24 pm

Great news as I know where was talk in August when everything fully broke down of this possibly better serving the north side. Well maybe BFSN had the cities best interests all along! Mostly kidding.

From a story in august on this"Golden Valley Mayor Shep Harris, who led the charge to keep negotiating with the railroad, albeit in a more-aggressive fashion, said he was disappointed with the vote."
Sounds like they knew if they ended talks this could be the result

Bakken2016
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Re: Bottineau LRT (Blue Line Extension)

Postby Bakken2016 » December 10th, 2020, 2:28 pm

Great news as I know where was talk in August when everything fully broke down of this possibly better serving the north side. Well maybe BFSN had the cities best interests all along! Mostly kidding.

From a story in august on this"Golden Valley Mayor Shep Harris, who led the charge to keep negotiating with the railroad, albeit in a more-aggressive fashion, said he was disappointed with the vote."
Sounds like they knew if they ended talks this could be the result
Yea.... it really never served Golden Valley anyways, terrible placement for stations.


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