Green Line / Central Corridor construction thread (archive)

[UptownSport]

So you're basically saying if you want grade separated transit, you need elevated rail (monorail) or tracks suspended by dirigible

Deep escalators (saw some SOMEWHERE, can't recall if it was DC), (FYI: heard Moscow had deepest, IIRC) add even more $, I'm not sure I believe cut 'n cover would even be feasible-
Unllike other places, there isn't room below or beside downtown streets, assume each lot goes down in all practical terms forever, or if it's now a flat parklot, it'd still need to be preserved for future builds.
I understand Mpls has a heating system, too

Not to mention that there are plenty of Urban Exploration sites that show the exploration of the drainage system among other underground things.

Here's one:

http://www.actionsquad.org/underground.html

If we're talking cut-and-cover it's basically the same as any other dense place-- electrical and fiber conduit, cut-and-cover chilled/heated water tunnels, and buried water mains and minor sewers and drains

[Andrew_F]

Not to mention that there are plenty of Urban Exploration sites that show the exploration of the drainage system among other underground things.

Here's one:

http://www.actionsquad.org/underground.html

And that's not the half of it. But you'll notice that not a single location listed there is in the area we're talking about.

[Chauncey87]

I agree completely. The best part is that much of that wouldn't actually have to be underground. West Lake to Hennepin would be in the trench, and you could cut and cover one of the residential streets (like Dupont or Bryant) rather than expensive deep bore or f***ing up Hennepin or Lyndale.

THIS is what Minneapolis should be pushing for, rather than stupid slow streetcars. Let Metro Transit rollout the arterial BRT network and advocate for a grade-separated, truly rapid connection between the densest parts of the metro area.

Agreed!! Time is money and if people see the trolley isn't any faster then the bus it replaced what is the point?
Grade-separated rail lines should become the focus. With a Metro expected to reach over 4 million give or take a decade and with mpls having already at 7019.6/sq mi. Then we pretty much already have some pretty good numbers to make subway or an el work. Traffic in the core, uptown, and along lake street is already heavy. How would anybody expect anything other then grade-separated trains to improve anything?

Also UptownSport is this the metro station
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodley_Pa ... A_station)
It had some of the longest escalators I have ever been on.

[UptownSport]

A trolley (mixed with traffic) has a different and valid use ...

Heartily agree on need for huge projects, easily accessed, speedy transit thru core / high density areas!!!!!!!!!
It costs money to run a city ...

Not to mention that there are plenty of Urban Exploration sites that show the exploration of the drainage system among other underground things.

Here's one:

http://www.actionsquad.org/underground.html

And that's not the half of it. But you'll notice that not a single location listed there is in the area we're talking about.

Please re-read

[Andrew_F]

Re-read what, this thread or the AS site? Nothing on there would come close to interfering with a subway under 5th.

[UptownSport]

Also UptownSport is this the metro station
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodley_Pa ... A_station)
It had some of the longest escalators I have ever been on.

Most likely!!!

Perp, didn't realize we were just talking 5th (in Mpls)-
in that case read Spearson's link- lotsa mention of all kinds of things under that-

Is there any mention, any whatsoever, by any officials or organization of underground transit plans for DT's?

[Suburban Outcast]

Is there any mention, any whatsoever, by any officials or organization of underground transit plans for DT's?

Probably not, I am pretty sure they built the at-grade corridor to last at least 20 more years. It's just if when we actually have a larger LRT network and weekday Blue/Green Line combined ridership comes close to six-figures, it could fuel talks of going underground in like 2030. That's just a ballpark estimate though.

[Tcmetro]

An underground alignment for rail transit was considered from the first plans in 1967 through the early 90s.

[mattaudio]

I wonder if it would be easier to move the rail to 6th Street at the point down the line when it needs to go underground. The big challenge would be alignment/grade near Target Field -- maybe transition to deep bore west of Hennepin? Otherwise seems like it would be easier to tunnel under an existing street than to tunnel under the current LRT grade.

[fehler]

One of the first steps in building the LRT on 5th was "utilities relocation". With that step already complete, maybe it would be easier to cut 5th street open and build the tunnel there.

[MNdible]

One of the first steps in building the LRT on 5th was "utilities relocation". With that step already complete, maybe it would be easier to cut 5th street open and build the tunnel there.

Now if they could just figure out a way to relocate those pesky LRT tracks directly above it for the three years it will take to build this tunnel...

[Suburban Outcast]

One of the first steps in building the LRT on 5th was "utilities relocation". With that step already complete, maybe it would be easier to cut 5th street open and build the tunnel there.

Now if they could just figure out a way to relocate those pesky LRT tracks directly above it for the three years it will take to build this tunnel...

They could divert the rail traffic to stop at Metrodome/DT East, and have people going into downtown on buses or walk/bike if they want to. It would be definitely a pain in the ass commute for some, but if it was done before the Southwest and Bottineau LRT were in service it could minimize service disruptions. Which parts would want underground? The tracks between Target Field (that's fine staying as is) and DT East Stations?

[Tcmetro]

The most logical solution would be to build the tunnel on another street, such as 6th or 7th. Why would we tunnel on 5th? It seems like it would be possible to integrate the underground stations into the Government Center's lower level as well as Gaviidae and Wells Fargo.

I think that some sort of expansion of the Nicollet Mall station will be needed in the short-term, such as converting the sidewalk into a platform, and potentially closing 5th St along that block and adding a platform where the road is.

[UptownSport]

It seems like it would be possible to integrate the underground stations into the Government Center's lower level as well as Gaviidae and Wells Fargo.

Interesting idea ...

[Nick]

Sorry if this is a "comes in at the end of a huge conversation asking questions that have already been answered" type post, but if the cars are already arriving and being tested/put into service, why do we need to test the line for a year before it opens for revenue service? Is that really how long they need to test signals and such?

[lordmoke]

Sorry if this is a "comes in at the end of a huge conversation asking questions that have already been answered" type post, but if the cars are already arriving and being tested/put into service, why do we need to test the line for a year before it opens for revenue service? Is that really how long they need to test signals and such?

Hell, it took them almost ten years to get the signals on Hiawatha finished!

(So yes, probably, is my guess.)

[mulad]

I'm hoping that a lot of the time left in the schedule is padding in case the guideway needs to be ripped up to fix cabling or connections. I'm pretty sure I've seen that happen already -- presumably there have been electrical continuity tests happening along the way, but there's always a good chance that something was missed or broke along the way. It's just a big and complex project.

They'll have a set of tests to run through. Hopefully stuff will just work.

I wonder if LRV testing will shift to using the Green Line rather than the airport tunnels at some point - presumably they could get more testing accomplished by doing it during the day there rather than late at night at MSP, by there would be a chance of a train stalling in an intersection or not stopping properly. Maybe there are a set of tests that are likely safe.

but as we've discussed before - A big limit is the number of runnable LRVs. There's a minimum that will be needed, and Siemens can only put them out so fast, plus they each need testing on arrival (albeit probably less than the first articles).

[mulad]

Oh, and the CCLRT Twitter account had mentioned that they've now reached 89% complete.

I've noticed that some temporary traffic signals are getting replaced by permanent signals. The set at 6th & Cedar in St Paul went live this past week.

[VAStationDude]

The longest new stretches with minimal grade crossings I can think of are between the west bank and east bank and along the U of M transit way. Perhaps slow dynamic testing could take place in those two locations.

[UptownSport]

YEP! Just went from 87% to 89%

http://www.metrocouncil.org/transportat ... rridor.asp

Someone explained why a spur to UofM stops couldn't open early but don't recall why-
Traction Power substations could(?) be installed starting West and working to St. Paul.
Being very short, I'd assume spur's need could be met with cars that have so far been delivered.

Did see large pedestrian crossing post (Like the 'X' that's at unattended freight rail crossings) installed between Snelling and Lexington- and gussets high on caternary posts in the same area. (Apologize for not getting a pic)
-Perhaps there's lots more to do than we assume.

Question, how long was testing on Hiawatha? I was in the South then overseas when it opened.