Green Line Extension - Southwest LRT

[Tyler]

Wasn't access to the park supposed to be the main draw of 50th Street/Minnehaha Park station.
And wasn't boardings/departures at said station the lowest on the blue line.

I’m guessing the 21st st station ridership will be even lower. That said the beach draws a different, younger, more urban demo. On nice weekend days i think it will be will be very well used. We shall see…

[Bakken2016]

Watched the SOUTHWEST LRT CORRIDOR MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE (CMC) MEETING today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG9nLtfnCcc

Lots of good info, the one thing that stuck out though, since people have been asking if there would be a way to start revenue service on the western portion or extend the Green Line to West 21 St Station prior to the tunnel being open. It looks like the answer for that is not likely. They are trying to figure out how to get the trains out to Eden Prairie to do systems testing before the tunnel is complete, as well as testing the Blue and Green line interchange extending from Target Field.

Also, seems like local politicians along the line are still very supportive of the project even though it is delayed.

[Silophant]

I don't understand why testing the Target Field interchange would be a problem, the tunnel starts miles from there.

[Bakken2016]

I don't understand why testing the Target Field interchange would be a problem, the tunnel starts miles from there.

Quoting Jim Alexander "there will be a lot of bugs to work out"

[DanPatchToget]

I certainly hope we don't have severe technical difficulties that delay it even more like Denver's commuter rail system had with railroad crossing signals.

[LRV Op Dude]

Turns out that it would have been fast and cheaper to tunnel under Hennepin. All this money being spent and still not O&M.

[Mdcastle]

So it's assured that we wouldn't run into all kinds of issues trying to tunnel under a street in a dense urban area?

[DanPatchToget]

So it's assured that we wouldn't run into all kinds of issues trying to tunnel under a street in a dense urban area?

We probably would, but it would also very likely be worth it considering the population density and demand for transit in Uptown.

[BoredAgain]

So it's assured that we wouldn't run into all kinds of issues trying to tunnel under a street in a dense urban area?

We probably would, but it would also very likely be worth it considering the population density and demand for transit in Uptown.

There would have been cost overruns either way. That is predictable given our history of light rail construction. The argument is that tunneling through a built up urban area would have had different problems, with better understood solutions and serve a lot more people in the process.

It is the difference between known unknowns and unknown unknowns, to borrow a phrase from early 2000's era war-monger Donald Rumsfeld.

[MNdible]

The LRT tunnel that goes underneath the Lowry Hill tunnel would be a thing to behold.

[Trademark]

The LRT tunnel that goes underneath the Lowry Hill tunnel would be a thing to behold.

I always envisioned it being elevated north of Franklin avenue through the hennepin/Lyndale mess. Which would allow a Loving Park/Walker Station that would be impossible with a deep bore tunnel with a freeway above it.

It would then continue to either the 394 trench or tunneling again near 16th street downtown on Hennepin.

[Hero]

I think a lot of people will use it recreationally. Especially with plans to flesh out a little more of cedar lakes Park area to the north. It reminds me of being in Berlin and taking the train to Wanssee or something like that, and those stops were heavily used. Might be to the chagrin of the neighborhood but more people deserve access to the lakes and recreation too.

Yes. Tons of people drive and park in this area on nice days anyways. I actually think most of the immediate neighbors will be/are fine with it. The streets full of cars is definitely more annoying/impactful, and there are zero homes between the station and the lake. Of course there is a contingent that thinks the station will bring in the undesirables but the beach already brings a diverse group to the neighborhood, they're just driving there.

If the station at 21st is going to be so popular why didn't they extend route 2 years ago?

I'm not saying nobody will use the train to go to the park but it almost seems to me they routed the extension around the people who could use it the most. Just look at the Minneapolis map in this article.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/10/22/ ... you-think/

[Bakken2016]

I think a lot of people will use it recreationally. Especially with plans to flesh out a little more of cedar lakes Park area to the north. It reminds me of being in Berlin and taking the train to Wanssee or something like that, and those stops were heavily used. Might be to the chagrin of the neighborhood but more people deserve access to the lakes and recreation too.

Yes. Tons of people drive and park in this area on nice days anyways. I actually think most of the immediate neighbors will be/are fine with it. The streets full of cars is definitely more annoying/impactful, and there are zero homes between the station and the lake. Of course there is a contingent that thinks the station will bring in the undesirables but the beach already brings a diverse group to the neighborhood, they're just driving there.

If the station at 21st is going to be so popular why didn't they extend route 2 years ago?

I'm not saying nobody will use the train to go to the park but it almost seems to me they routed the extension around the people who could use it the most. Just look at the Minneapolis map in this article.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/10/22/ ... you-think/

They chose that routing because Hennepin County owned the ROW and they thought that would be the easy routing, boy were they wrong.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I'm not trying to justify the routing or even the station. I just think it adds good value, disregarding ROI.

[BoredAgain]

The LRT tunnel that goes underneath the Lowry Hill tunnel would be a thing to behold.

I always envisioned it being elevated north of Franklin avenue through the hennepin/Lyndale mess. Which would allow a Loving Park/Walker Station that would be impossible with a deep bore tunnel with a freeway above it.

It would then continue to either the 394 trench or tunneling again near 16th street downtown on Hennepin.

This ship sailed long ago, but I always thought they should leave Target Field Station as planned, but then turn south after going under 94 in the rail trench, put a station at the north end of the sculpture garden, deep bore tunnel under the hill with a station between Franklin and and 22nd. and then cut and cover down hennepin until Girard where the tunnel work would turn due south so it could yurn into the Greenway trench and stop at the transit center.

That would have allowed continuous service for the green line unlike the 3C alignment and avoided the need to tunnel under an existing tunnel, but they would have needed to find a way past 394 somewhere near Dunwoody.

[Bakken2016]

https://www.startribune.com/condo-crack ... 600144053/
Truly a project that is a gift that keeps on giving.

[thespeedmccool]

At this point, I'd imagine even the Met Council supports an audit so they can place the blame at the feet of the engineering firms and move on.

[StandishGuy]

So, the total amount of the Green Line Extension is now $2.7 billion. How much of that is the tunnel?

[Trademark]

If after the review of the green line, they figure out how to build a cheap light rail line like in many European cities and the blue line comes in under budget. This could be a major win.

[DanPatchToget]

If after the review of the green line, they figure out how to build a cheap light rail line like in many European cities and the blue line comes in under budget. This could be a major win.

That would require changes to labor laws in our country and/or bringing in Europeans to do the design and construction for us.